Real Economy - Petrol or Diesel car ?
- Thread starter LesleyAprotto
- Start date
Malaysia diesel quality is shittier than my piss. Even my piss have a more consistent colour. Government protecting the oil and gas boys, let them delay upgrading to Euro V standard. Malaysia still using Euro 2, orang sudah 3 steps ahead of us.
- Sep 17, 2008
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HELL YEAH! SCREW Resale Value! If you like the car, I wouldn't bother thinking of resale value man...just like Supra, even though resale value not as high as Skylines, is still a great car! 
Well if you have to think the resell value and high cost of maintenance, why even bother to ask?
From my side, I did mentioned the maintenance is bit cheaper than the petrol vehicle because of the mileage/litre. But how cheap is cheap are very subjective. Like bro TR said, different people different view. The same thing goes to diesel vehicle, if you follow the schedule of maintenance, the chances that you get the vehicle to breakdown is minimum.
Cheese mate.
From my side, I did mentioned the maintenance is bit cheaper than the petrol vehicle because of the mileage/litre. But how cheap is cheap are very subjective. Like bro TR said, different people different view. The same thing goes to diesel vehicle, if you follow the schedule of maintenance, the chances that you get the vehicle to breakdown is minimum.
Cheese mate.
No need to beat around the bushes....
Ask ANY limousine operator why they choose petrol and not diesel?
If diesel cars are damn good any easy to maintain, then why theres NO demand for it?
Resale value dropped like shit from the birds ess....
Is it because not many people know about diesel?
Just tell me why?
My frens used Merz E270 CDI, (merz is king of diesel engine) vomitted blood, car in and out of workshop more than on the road !
Finally sold it and brought about RM40+,000 to pay for his car loan!
Because the value of his car dropped so much, even at 70% financing margin paid for almost 2 years
yet he got to bring out RM40K when selling his car!
Selling car dont get money, selling car must pay RM40K to settle his bank loan !
Now is this what you all call REAL ECONOMY for diesel car?
He vowed not to touch diesel cars again !
I honestly know nothing about Diesel cars.
However I do know someone who has a Wira 2.0 Diesel and he's happily chugging away everyday to work and back. The FC for that car isn't as fantastic as Blackhowling's BMW but it's still pretty impressive for a Wira, 17/18km/L isn't bad at all. But having said that the car is somewhat underpowered and it spews black smoke everytime you rev it hard.
As for your friends decision to buy a diesel Merc and sell it at a massive loss, that's just too bad for him. Economically wise, it was a bad decision to sell the car at such a massive loss. He might have done better with a change of mechanic?
- Sep 17, 2008
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Taxis are running on diesels
Airport taxis/limousines are also running on diesel.
Do you have facts to back up that there is no demand for diesel?
Petrol cars may be more on the road but but not because there is no demand
demand for diesel. Is because not all cars are manufactured with diesel as
a choice. How many sedans out there of all brands gave you the choice to pick
a diesel model other than those 4X4? Not many are a fan of a big truck.
Your friend's mercedes...just cuz of one people telling you the problem he had, that would
change your mindset totally that diesel cars are not good?
His car going in and out of workshop is it really because it is a diesel car or the way he
Maintain his car? I see Cars that run on petrol going in and out of workshop as well. So,
does this mean that cars that run on petrol have lots of problems then?
Just not a way to judge how bad is the maintenance of a petrol car or a diesel car.
Just the way we maintain the car. I have friends who own a 4x4, don't hear them complaining
as much as those who are driving cars that is running on petrol.
In fact, people who came in to ask for solution on their car problems in forums are
usually cars that run on petrol? So, how is that gonna prove that cars on petrol or cars
on diesel is better?
End of the day is just how you maintain your car. Be it a Ferarri, you dont maintain it
well, u gonna end up with problems as well.
I drive a Toyota Altis, I maintain quite well as well, but somehow I have my own problems
as well. Oh ya, is running on petrol not diesel. Is still a machine end of the day, wear
and tear is normal. Just depends on how bad it is...
Not siding anyone here. Just my POV.
Airport taxi & limousines running on diesel???????????????????????????????????????????????Taxis are running on diesels
Airport taxis/limousines are also running on diesel.
Do you have facts to back up that there is no demand for diesel?
Petrol cars may be more on the road but but not because there is no demand
demand for diesel. Is because not all cars are manufactured with diesel as
a choice. How many sedans out there of all brands gave you the choice to pick
a diesel model other than those 4X4? Not many are a fan of a big truck.
Your friend's mercedes...just cuz of one people telling you the problem he had, that would
change your mindset totally that diesel cars are not good?
His car going in and out of workshop is it really because it is a diesel car or the way he
Maintain his car? I see Cars that run on petrol going in and out of workshop as well. So,
does this mean that cars that run on petrol have lots of problems then?
Just not a way to judge how bad is the maintenance of a petrol car or a diesel car.
Just the way we maintain the car. I have friends who own a 4x4, don't hear them complaining
as much as those who are driving cars that is running on petrol.
In fact, people who came in to ask for solution on their car problems in forums are
usually cars that run on petrol? So, how is that gonna prove that cars on petrol or cars
on diesel is better?
End of the day is just how you maintain your car. Be it a Ferarri, you dont maintain it
well, u gonna end up with problems as well.
I drive a Toyota Altis, I maintain quite well as well, but somehow I have my own problems
as well. Oh ya, is running on petrol not diesel. Is still a machine end of the day, wear
and tear is normal. Just depends on how bad it is...
Not siding anyone here. Just my POV.
hahaha.........................
Well better not debate..............
You are not putting facts here.....
Pls dont be angry if i say that you are trying to convince people that diesel cars are economy including twisting facts, saying theres good demand for diesel cars etc.
See the second hand value to see if theres demand or not????????????????????????
Not point arguing with ppl here cos they say losing RM100,000 depreciation for a diesel car is still economical..
PENNY WISE, POUND FOOLISH !:stupid:
You only cited one case regarding poor diesel reliability whereas you can find countless more on here about petrol engines. Even in your friend's case it's not clear whether or not the diesel engine caused it.
Not all people give a crap about resale value, especially if the car is performing well. Some of the diesel owners here already attest to that. If you're not looking to sell the car, why would the car depreciation matters?
I do admit, resale of diesel is low in this country but that can't be blamed on diesel technology alone. Society's image contribute to this as well as people's view towards diesel are trucks and buses i.e black fumes, loud noise, bla bla bla..which does not paint the true picture.
Anyway, you already have your own preconceived notion regarding diesels, and I doubt anything others say will change your mind.
Not all people give a crap about resale value, especially if the car is performing well. Some of the diesel owners here already attest to that. If you're not looking to sell the car, why would the car depreciation matters?
I do admit, resale of diesel is low in this country but that can't be blamed on diesel technology alone. Society's image contribute to this as well as people's view towards diesel are trucks and buses i.e black fumes, loud noise, bla bla bla..which does not paint the true picture.
Anyway, you already have your own preconceived notion regarding diesels, and I doubt anything others say will change your mind.
- Mar 3, 2005
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Everyone, please calm down...I can see the boiling point here going up and up....
Taxis, airport Limo (majority) and some buses (cityliner, Putrajaya buses) are running on NGV because it's much cheaper than petrol.
IF there was no NGV, I believe a lot of taxi, limo services will still choose to use Diesel and this will push the government to provide better and higher grade diesel fuel if the taxis, limo keep breaking down due to poor quality diesel...because now we have NGV...we won't know when our diesel fuel will have better quality as we all know NGV is now only provided by Petronas....
Let's look back to the 80s and 90s most taxis are running diesels. Toyota Crown, Cedia, and the Proton diesel....I believe those in the 80s sure know about this...also we need to look back why diesel engines in the pass have such high failure because the technology is still improving...just like how petrol engines have constant break downs too in the pass.
Fast forward to present time, diesel technology and petrol has improved over the time....and why I will say diesel at this moment is still the more efficient engine is because diesel fuel at the same amount of petrol give out more energy and the thermal efficiency of the diesel engine is more superior than a petrol engine....that's why you see heavy trucks, container trucks, and heavy machinery still use diesel..including oil tanker and big container vessel...petrol won't give enough power to even move these....
Take example, if I'm the government la...I propose we need to have greener emission from diesel....but the higher quality diesel will cost more..more lower sulphur content mah...refinery will say...we can do it but will charge more....then the transport sector will start to make noise why higher diesel price and why need such high quality as our trucks still can use current diesel...(most trucks and buses we have in malaysia are not very new) Then I tell those transport sector, you need to get new trucks no matter what then the transport company will say ok then we charge more for transport cost which in turn the goods they transport becomes more expensive....then the citizen sure make noise why increase food price and this and that (because better diesel and new trucks mah)...If I'm the government la, I sure think very hard mia......then come NGV....no need to change vehicle and price also cheaper....from business POV...I sure agree with NGV instead of diesel for the taxis..BUT for the trucks sorry la....NGV just won't provide enough power....
About the depreciation thingy, in Malaysia is based more on brands more than what powers it....just look at any conti brand, Peugeot, Merc, Bimmers, Citroen...Korean brand also like that when they 1st came into our market....tell me which of the above don't suffer from high depreciation.....no matter it's petrol or diesel...
I have last time a Citroen ZX 1.9L petrol...loads of problems...engine overheating, cooling fan broke, radiator crack, water jacket clog...etc....
Then now, I owned a 2nd hand Peugeot 206 year 2000 CBU unit from MBF Peugeot....I bought 60K plus in 2003..Imagine how much is the new car cost...2nd year owning it...also tons of problem, brake problems, AC leaking, belt snap, radiator clog, gearbox problem....then I go survey market to sell the car...car dealer willing to give me 43K only....F*ck it I say....I better keep it....last year July 2011 I go survey price to sell it again because my garage is full and need to make way for the new cars....asked 6 car dealers...price they willing to take 12K only...so do I sell it or not?? petrol engine also.....206 parts was rare and really hard to find back then before bestari come out even bestari come out some of my engine parts if different from it because the bestari is running multiplex system while mine is the old school type....I have spent so much time running up and down shop to shops just to look for parts...cannot find have to buy local parts to mod and fit...if I need to order shops or service center tells you need to order from France...with super duper expensive price....imagine a timing belt kit set cost close to 1K, MYR800 for a new starter, 2K for a BSI unit, MYR500 for a drive shaft, MYR450 for the coil pack, AC compressor MYR700 for a new unit, wiper motor MYR550....I was only able to find a good and reliable workshop in 2008 so imagine the hard time I went through and most of the time I need to do all the repair myself..lucky it was not my daily drive or the only 1 car I have if not I would have rant here already saying how F*cked up the car is....
About the Limo matter, well KLIA or those company CAN import in a whole fleet of the new cars with diesel...but our diesel fuel is not really high quality...and wonder do you remember when KLIA wanted to import in Merc as the KLIA limo it made a huge fuss why need Merc as Limo why cannot use local car in the papers....Diesel market here is not wide and good as petrol is because diesel fuel here is not up to par with the rest of the world. No.2 we need more techs who are trained up to par with the latest diesel engine. No.3 demand here is less due to diesel quality.....this is the to view the matter from perspective of a Malaysian....but if we view it globally....it's different....
I went to Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and some EU countries....their taxis Limo there all 100% using diesel....so to say diesel engine is not economical from a global view is not correct....
Taxis, airport Limo (majority) and some buses (cityliner, Putrajaya buses) are running on NGV because it's much cheaper than petrol.
IF there was no NGV, I believe a lot of taxi, limo services will still choose to use Diesel and this will push the government to provide better and higher grade diesel fuel if the taxis, limo keep breaking down due to poor quality diesel...because now we have NGV...we won't know when our diesel fuel will have better quality as we all know NGV is now only provided by Petronas....
Let's look back to the 80s and 90s most taxis are running diesels. Toyota Crown, Cedia, and the Proton diesel....I believe those in the 80s sure know about this...also we need to look back why diesel engines in the pass have such high failure because the technology is still improving...just like how petrol engines have constant break downs too in the pass.
Fast forward to present time, diesel technology and petrol has improved over the time....and why I will say diesel at this moment is still the more efficient engine is because diesel fuel at the same amount of petrol give out more energy and the thermal efficiency of the diesel engine is more superior than a petrol engine....that's why you see heavy trucks, container trucks, and heavy machinery still use diesel..including oil tanker and big container vessel...petrol won't give enough power to even move these....
Take example, if I'm the government la...I propose we need to have greener emission from diesel....but the higher quality diesel will cost more..more lower sulphur content mah...refinery will say...we can do it but will charge more....then the transport sector will start to make noise why higher diesel price and why need such high quality as our trucks still can use current diesel...(most trucks and buses we have in malaysia are not very new) Then I tell those transport sector, you need to get new trucks no matter what then the transport company will say ok then we charge more for transport cost which in turn the goods they transport becomes more expensive....then the citizen sure make noise why increase food price and this and that (because better diesel and new trucks mah)...If I'm the government la, I sure think very hard mia......then come NGV....no need to change vehicle and price also cheaper....from business POV...I sure agree with NGV instead of diesel for the taxis..BUT for the trucks sorry la....NGV just won't provide enough power....
About the depreciation thingy, in Malaysia is based more on brands more than what powers it....just look at any conti brand, Peugeot, Merc, Bimmers, Citroen...Korean brand also like that when they 1st came into our market....tell me which of the above don't suffer from high depreciation.....no matter it's petrol or diesel...
I have last time a Citroen ZX 1.9L petrol...loads of problems...engine overheating, cooling fan broke, radiator crack, water jacket clog...etc....
Then now, I owned a 2nd hand Peugeot 206 year 2000 CBU unit from MBF Peugeot....I bought 60K plus in 2003..Imagine how much is the new car cost...2nd year owning it...also tons of problem, brake problems, AC leaking, belt snap, radiator clog, gearbox problem....then I go survey market to sell the car...car dealer willing to give me 43K only....F*ck it I say....I better keep it....last year July 2011 I go survey price to sell it again because my garage is full and need to make way for the new cars....asked 6 car dealers...price they willing to take 12K only...so do I sell it or not?? petrol engine also.....206 parts was rare and really hard to find back then before bestari come out even bestari come out some of my engine parts if different from it because the bestari is running multiplex system while mine is the old school type....I have spent so much time running up and down shop to shops just to look for parts...cannot find have to buy local parts to mod and fit...if I need to order shops or service center tells you need to order from France...with super duper expensive price....imagine a timing belt kit set cost close to 1K, MYR800 for a new starter, 2K for a BSI unit, MYR500 for a drive shaft, MYR450 for the coil pack, AC compressor MYR700 for a new unit, wiper motor MYR550....I was only able to find a good and reliable workshop in 2008 so imagine the hard time I went through and most of the time I need to do all the repair myself..lucky it was not my daily drive or the only 1 car I have if not I would have rant here already saying how F*cked up the car is....
About the Limo matter, well KLIA or those company CAN import in a whole fleet of the new cars with diesel...but our diesel fuel is not really high quality...and wonder do you remember when KLIA wanted to import in Merc as the KLIA limo it made a huge fuss why need Merc as Limo why cannot use local car in the papers....Diesel market here is not wide and good as petrol is because diesel fuel here is not up to par with the rest of the world. No.2 we need more techs who are trained up to par with the latest diesel engine. No.3 demand here is less due to diesel quality.....this is the to view the matter from perspective of a Malaysian....but if we view it globally....it's different....
I went to Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and some EU countries....their taxis Limo there all 100% using diesel....so to say diesel engine is not economical from a global view is not correct....
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i vote diesels.
VW Passat BlueMotion Sets Mileage Record
not cos of that piece of achievement...cos when the world turns to shit, i can pour whatever petroleum or homemade spirits into my diesel and still run. WTH...i can just pour in filtered week old goreng pisang oil and still chug along. can i do that with a petrol?
lets just leave depreciation out of this...buying cars based on their depreciation rates are for economists, not car lovers. its old fashioned and defeats the point. if depreciation is such a big point, take the bus instead. good luck finding a petrol driven bus....i wonder why...
speaking in terms of economy, how can anything be compared when we have so few low end diesel cars here? all comparison is based on BMW's, Mercs and maybe the Ford focus TDCI (which are already classified as premium cars and comes with premium maintance costs) AND mostly with pickups. Please compare between a gold TSI vs Golf bluemotion diesel...
If the gomen starts implementing Euro4m and auto makers start bringing in diesels, I'd go for a dirt cheap diesel n buy week old goreng pisang oil from the goreng pisang sellers around my area to suplement my fuel usage. How's that for economy?
oh....i just remembered another thing...i wonder why all heavy military vehicles run on diesels?
VW Passat BlueMotion Sets Mileage Record
not cos of that piece of achievement...cos when the world turns to shit, i can pour whatever petroleum or homemade spirits into my diesel and still run. WTH...i can just pour in filtered week old goreng pisang oil and still chug along. can i do that with a petrol?
lets just leave depreciation out of this...buying cars based on their depreciation rates are for economists, not car lovers. its old fashioned and defeats the point. if depreciation is such a big point, take the bus instead. good luck finding a petrol driven bus....i wonder why...
speaking in terms of economy, how can anything be compared when we have so few low end diesel cars here? all comparison is based on BMW's, Mercs and maybe the Ford focus TDCI (which are already classified as premium cars and comes with premium maintance costs) AND mostly with pickups. Please compare between a gold TSI vs Golf bluemotion diesel...
If the gomen starts implementing Euro4m and auto makers start bringing in diesels, I'd go for a dirt cheap diesel n buy week old goreng pisang oil from the goreng pisang sellers around my area to suplement my fuel usage. How's that for economy?
oh....i just remembered another thing...i wonder why all heavy military vehicles run on diesels?
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2003 honda city IDSI market price today = 39k
2003 ford ranger NA market price today = 45k
I would say the depreciation is around the same give or take a few thousand. take into consideration the maintanance costs + fuel savings i would say the ranger still wins? the ranger was a workhorse around really tough conditions. just imagine if the city were used as rough as the ranger would have been used...i would say the city wouldnt be priced at 39k if it were in bad condition...
this are calculations made based on Malaysian market.
Lesley. You started an open discussion. I think you need to accept that all discussions have more than 1 side to it and calling everybody who disagrees with you an idiot is uncalled for.
2003 ford ranger NA market price today = 45k
I would say the depreciation is around the same give or take a few thousand. take into consideration the maintanance costs + fuel savings i would say the ranger still wins? the ranger was a workhorse around really tough conditions. just imagine if the city were used as rough as the ranger would have been used...i would say the city wouldnt be priced at 39k if it were in bad condition...
this are calculations made based on Malaysian market.
Lesley. You started an open discussion. I think you need to accept that all discussions have more than 1 side to it and calling everybody who disagrees with you an idiot is uncalled for.
Just one important question. How many KM per month?Some diesel powered car owners are saying that their cars are very economical to run...
Petrol powered car owners also saying that their cars are cheaper to run...
In terms of "REAL ECONOMY" meaning the cheapest car to run for say 5 years or so....
Which do you think is?
And why ?:proud:
If you compare 320d and 320i, they are 248k and 238k respectively. Maintenance pretty much the same, you are paying Banyak Masuk Workshop maintenance after warranty period for both BMWs.
So we are talking about RM10k price difference
F30 BMW 320d First Impression Test Drive
CBT says 7.8 per 100km, 700~800 on a 57 litre tank.
BMW Malaysia claims a combined fuel consumption of
320i 6L/100km
320d 4.5L/100km
The average joe probably drives 20,000km a year.
so the 320i would have used 1200 litres of petrol, and the 320d would have used 900 litres of diesel
RON95 and diesel same price..so.. for 5 years, that would be
320i = 1200 x 5 = 6000 x 1.9 = 11400
320d = 900 x 5 = 4500 x 1.9 = 8550
Both have 3 years warranty. On the 4th or 5th year.. got problem or not is hit and miss. But considering both are BMWs its an apple to apple comparison.
So conclusion? Petrol offers real economy in this context.
HOWEVER, if we changed it to travelling 5000km per month, that would be
320i = 3600 x 5 = 18000 x 1.9 = 34200
320d = 2700 x 5 = 13500 x 1.9 = 25650
And you are still coming out short :) If you travel 10000km per month, diesel sure wins, but that's 300+ km a day.
All these are assuming BMW's fuel consumption claim is accurate.
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