Knocking/Pinging - Really bad or harmless?

Veloc

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Veloc

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I am very sensitive when it comes to knocking. I can't even tolerate a bit as I am afraid that it will cause serious damage to my engine. I myself am running retarded ignition with very much reduced knocking (still got a bit) on my 4AGE Blacktop.

However, I have friends who run on standard or even advanced ignition and asked me not to worry. I have test driven their cars and it knocks severely! It's difficult to even go 30% throttle at lower revs. Knocks very loud. But he said it's no issue and he has been running that for years.

I also have friends who uses 4G63T where knocking caused bent conrods and broken piston crowns!

So how dangerous is knocking actually? Harmless or harmful? If i follow my friend's advice of ignoring knocking and advancing ignition timing for more response, will it blow up my engine???
 

yeehau86

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yeehau86

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A few questions:

- Did it knock until the Check Engine Light comes out?

- What type of fuel you are using? Try switching fuel or petrol stations with more crowd as the stock is fresher means the grade is still there

- Are you running on engine management? Try to write down the RPM when it knocks and inform your tuner so that he can play around with the fuel, ignition timing, etc. I do experience knocking but only during sudden full load on the throttle pedal and slightly during VVT opens.
 

Veloc

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Veloc

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A few questions:

- Did it knock until the Check Engine Light comes out?

- What type of fuel you are using? Try switching fuel or petrol stations with more crowd as the stock is fresher means the grade is still there

- Are you running on engine management? Try to write down the RPM when it knocks and inform your tuner so that he can play around with the fuel, ignition timing, etc. I do experience knocking but only during sudden full load on the throttle pedal and slightly during VVT opens.
No engine management. No engine checklight on.

Same like yours i guess. I have retarded timing until only slig knocking during WOT or high load at low revs. Just want to know is it really serious or harmless. Some of my friends can just ignore it even when there is a lot.
 

yeehau86

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If your car is modded I think you should get an engine management to get it fixed but it require few trial and errors i.e. tune on dyno machine, drive it on the street. Even mine after tuned I still experience slight knocking once a while, I believe if the CEL light is not on then it should be fine as that is the warning point.
 

Izso

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Izso

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low rev knocks not so bad. high rev knocks very bad.

adjust your timing to be less aggressive laaaaaa.. hahahaha

---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

good point - get management and fix the mapping
 

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Pinging/knocking in the long run is harmful. This means the air fuel mixture ignites before reaching full compression.
Read more here... Engine knocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can try out vsafe petrol booster to see if it helps eliminate this knocking.....
He was using it. Then he came across a possibly related problem. It's currently sitting with the Vsafe fellas for troubleshooting. So currently back to stock petrol minus the additive, hence all the knocking apparently. :biggrin:
 

Veloc

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Veloc

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Pinging/knocking in the long run is harmful. This means the air fuel mixture ignites before reaching full compression.
Read more here... Engine knocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can try out vsafe petrol booster to see if it helps eliminate this knocking.....
As Izso said, I had some issues with Vsafe... Until it is resolved, i will cease using it. However, i must say that it reduced knocking and increased power.
 

vr2turbo

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vr2turbo

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As Izso said, I had some issues with Vsafe... Until it is resolved, i will cease using it. However, i must say that it reduced knocking and increased power.
Then got to use Ron 97 liao, or try other octane booster....:smokin:

Or can try adding some 2T. I even read somewhere some add a portion of diesel into the petrol or you can try mixing Ron 95 and 97....
 

Veloc

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Then got to use Ron 97 liao, or try other octane booster....:smokin:

Or can try adding some 2T. I even read somewhere some add a portion of diesel into the petrol or you can try mixing Ron 95 and 97....
Hahaha.. i wonder who dare to try that! Mixing diesel and petrol..
 

boyzone

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I am very sensitive when it comes to knocking. I can't even tolerate a bit as I am afraid that it will cause serious damage to my engine. I myself am running retarded ignition with very much reduced knocking (still got a bit) on my 4AGE Blacktop.

However, I have friends who run on standard or even advanced ignition and asked me not to worry. I have test driven their cars and it knocks severely! It's difficult to even go 30% throttle at lower revs. Knocks very loud. But he said it's no issue and he has been running that for years.

I also have friends who uses 4G63T where knocking caused bent conrods and broken piston crowns!

So how dangerous is knocking actually? Harmless or harmful? If i follow my friend's advice of ignoring knocking and advancing ignition timing for more response, will it blow up my engine???

Is your engine running stock? Just converted?

1) Do the top overhaul as blacktop engine is >10 yrs
2) If budget not allow on top overhaul:
a: check on spark plug, to understand ur air fuel mixture, this to confirm that ur firing system is running with correct.
bad firing system will let ur engine run into lean as O2 detected too much un-burn fuel.
b: Check ur O2, make sure is in good working condition
c: Change the spare plug to cooler heat range
d: pump in V-power
e: Retard ignition
f: Add in FPR

Btw, my car also run with minor knocking in low rpm, so far so good :biggrin:
 

Jose

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sometimes even on ron97 also i experience some slight knock on my car. bad fuel ?
 

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sometimes even on ron97 also i experience some slight knock on my car. bad fuel ?
Actually it depends. I have tested a few different brands of 97 including Vpower Racing. The worst of the lot seems to be Shell. This applies even in Singapore when I used their RON98. I would get knocking at the higher rev ranges no matter what. Don't know what's the main difference between the brands but the best seemed to be BHP for me, followed by PETRONAS and then Esso/Mobil.
 

boyzone

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sometimes even on ron97 also i experience some slight knock on my car. bad fuel ?
Malaysia fuel not clean!
Actually it depends. I have tested a few different brands of 97 including Vpower Racing. The worst of the lot seems to be Shell. This applies even in Singapore when I used their RON98. I would get knocking at the higher rev ranges no matter what. Don't know what's the main difference between the brands but the best seemed to be BHP for me, followed by PETRONAS and then Esso/Mobil.
is very subjective as difference engine matched with difference petrol additive formula.
For me, Proton, Produa & Mitsubishi engines are well suit with Petronas.
 

vr2turbo

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vr2turbo

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sometimes even on ron97 also i experience some slight knock on my car. bad fuel ?
Could be or your engine highly mod?:biggrin:

---------- Post added at 09:24 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

Malaysia fuel not clean!
Nowadays hear less of these cases. Those days plenty, mixing kerosene and all that....

---------- Post added at 09:27 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------

Actually it depends. I have tested a few different brands of 97 including Vpower Racing. The worst of the lot seems to be Shell. This applies even in Singapore when I used their RON98. I would get knocking at the higher rev ranges no matter what. Don't know what's the main difference between the brands but the best seemed to be BHP for me, followed by PETRONAS and then Esso/Mobil.
You also? I tried Shell Ron97 FS formula before their V Power. It was so bad that I had to siphon the fuel out. After that no more Shell for me even though they change to V power formula.
BHP good, means their 800ppm is good?:biggrin:
Still stick to Esso/Mobil which is Petron now. Running okay and got smiles points.....hahhahahaha:biggrin:
 

Jose

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Yes, mostly experience it when fuel up with shell 97. but i do experience it on mobil 1 fuel as well. it's on low rev when i wot there's slight knock on 3k rpm then the sudden surge at 4k rpm. and this usually happen on a hot sunny day. on a cool day eg 24-26'c car is smooth as silk. Suzuki Swift Sport with just some minor mods such as intake and exhaust with emu.
 

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i have knocking too, but when i drive with lpg, i have no any knocking with petrol... i doupt about distributor, i just bought ignition plugs and plug cables.
 

boyzone

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Just pumped Caltex RON95 ...so far no knocking even though run with duratec 272 cam :proud:
 

vr2turbo

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so the consensus is fuel from which company experiences the least knocking? :biggrin:
Cannot say as different people have different results even with the same make of vehicle. Best is to test them yourself and see which fuel suits your car.
I tried Shell old FS formula Ron97 and it did not suit my VR so I went back to my Esso/Mobil which is now Petron. Since running fine on this I rather not test with other fuel, but another main reason also I have two Petron stations near my home....:biggrin:
 

muzhaffar

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Dont expect to demolish knocking from ur blacktop. It requires ron100 as a standard
 

Kopi

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how do you even define 'knocking'?
sounds from the cylinder head? ignition misfiring as pre-detonation?