How does Proton's Design Department Works?

[punk]

Proton should make raining test for their cars.

 

[ixeo]

Note that the Original Neo R3 have 140hp..not great but enough..

The 145bhp Satria Neo R3 Lotus Edition is a 25 unit limited run. 145bhp? For RM115k? And still no LSD? Really? Its just the marketing department banking on the name.

The current one doesn't.
PROTON Edar - Overview

From a design perspective, R3 designs/bodykit has been very good. They have even manage to make the Proton Savvy look less repulsive. The R3 brand, the livery, is all very good under Tengku Djan, but the marketing people, hoping the bang some quick cash decided to call every piece of rubbish R3 to con people.

The current Satria Neo R3 is not worthy of the name it carries.

The ORIGINAL Satria R3 was RM77,888, it had MOMO STEERING and RECARO seats, with all the R3 performance improvements.

Then, came the FIRE RED Satria Neo R3, at RM79,797, this is the version with 145bhp, but guess what? No MOMO, NO RECARO.

Then CURRENTLY, the conjob Satria Neo R3, at RM60,800 to RM64,250. This one, is just the original Satria Neo, with bodykits, 125bhp engine. And they dare slap a R3 logo to it.

Why am I highlighting this? Cause interior design is relevant to design as well. Proton is just skimping and skimping yet charging the same premium price. No more Momo steering, no more Recaro, but you pay the same premium over the standard car for less. Proton seems to think slapping a R3 logo on it is the same as slapping an Evo badge on a Lancer and you can charge people more money. Hello, people are not paying for the badge, as beautiful as it looks.

 

[Veloc]

I think the best proton design and quality is at the wira and perdana generations. And now the Inspira is not bad. But that is because they are all Mitsubishi inspired.

As for all their other designs, I think I know how they design it. They hire good designers to come up with really good designs. And then say "Oh we want to be different. Let's go against their every suggestion".

Just what I think la...

 

[ixeo]

I think the best proton design and quality is at the wira and perdana generations. And now the Inspira is not bad. But that is because they are all Mitsubishi inspired.

As for all their other designs, I think I know how they design it. They hire good designers to come up with really good designs. And then say "Oh we want to be different. Let's go against their every suggestion".

Just what I think la...

Tukar reka bentuk ni! Ikut kata saya! You tak suka you keluar Proton! Saya [strike]menteri[/strike] COO!

Yup, sounds about right...

 

[stupidcar]

Proton R&D is good enough, for now. Market research suck balls! Branding and marketing worse!

 

[mosesmk]

Overheard that proton actually got really talented designer and engineer.but there alway 'someone' qho is alway denying other people good opinion.a friend inform that few of proton engineer resign n open their own tuning shop.most of car they handled was proton.true not really can't verify it.but looking to nowdays situation it can happen.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[YYC]

We are actually not short of local talents and I believe many good people in Proton have fabulous ideas but are frustrated by how it is run. They are not really dare to be different to make anything out wowing. I suspect politics and nationalism are still very deep rooted and dictating the car maker's direction which most of the time kill innovation. How different it can be under the new owner? Same old wine in a new bottle. I am an outsider and can only speculate what shit is in there.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

i doesnt have to be MOMO or RECARO or SPARCO OR BRIDO OR SSCUSSO to be a good design.

In my opinion current Satria Neo with R3 bodykit have a good nice Alcantara seat..and the Suprima, even though seat design not that great but very comfy..

that MOMO steering on the Satria R3 are very ugly..opinion differs..

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

how can everyone keep blaming top management/people who run it as a cause for ugly car?

are they purposely choose the ugly one to keep their profit? to keep their cronies? like I said earlier, other manufacturer does produced ugly cars too..
I bet when in automotive industries, ugliness is a common thing.

just wait for the EMAS..i should be magnificent.

 

[4gbanger]

i know sometimes people are not chasing the brand, but we all know its a premium when its a branded parts installed. if really proton could apply recaro like previous satria, why not now.. its like seize a privileage u already given.. and i really2 hope that neo's interior really need to change.. its like condominium on the outside but wooden house inside.. even the steering look like a kid's plastic toy steering.. im really frustrated..

 

[cvkit17]

What.can.we.do?

Other than not buying from them. Also, with the rising cost of living, we can only choose P1 or P2. The DUMNO is restricting P2 from making sedan cars (although slowly P2 has more and more bigger cars like Alza and 1.5L engine).

So P1 is utilizing the naive malaysian mindset: bigger car is more worthy because it has more space and more metal. True. Space is good so we can bang inside the car, but with the sickening quality and design? I would rather bang on a bicycle la..

Many of my friends and I will not buy Proton if we are given a choice. Frankly speaking and sorry to say, I would like to see Proton falls, bankrupt, and being bought by a great car manufacturer (No, DRB Hicom is still shit) and revive the brand the right way.

 

[YYC]

Personally, I will not use the GTi moniker, simply because it is inaccurate to begin with to describe a hot hatch. GTI stands for Gran Turismo Iniezione or in English, Grand Tourer Injection, which is traditionally used for (duh) Grand Tourer cars. Just cause the Germans got bad command of English doesn't mean we should follow suit.

Should keep it simple, the facelifted Neo with turbo engine should just be called Neo Turbo, and the balls out version Neo R3.

Problem is, the first R3 car was a really balls out car back in its day, something that was beginning to look like the equivalent of RenaultSport. Then the marketing took over and figured they can con people to buy more Satria Neo by calling it R3.. that diluted the brand of R3 and what it stood for.

Seriously? Satria Neo R3? With 125bhp and 150nM torque?
A silly VW Golf, I'm talking about the lowest grade of the lowest, has a 1.4L turbo engine that makes 140bhp and 250nM of torque. And we haven't take the big guns out yet. So we have a young bloke, who bought a Satria Neo R3 thinking he's all that, he probably can't out accelerate an aunty out of a toll booth who is in a VW Golf TSI.

Good comment and you got a point here.

I can't say more about the current body design like you have said it's out of date by a decade. The however inappropriate 'GTi' moniker on Satria or even Golf is way better than how currently Proton names its flagship tech: CFE - Charged Fuel Efficiency. There is nothing wrong with the turbo-charged technology itself but the naming is not appealing (as least to me). Like most have already suggested, by simply adding a 'T' to 1.6 is enough to raise buying endocrine. Even my neighbour named his dog 'Rocky' and Hollywood calls a snail 'Turbo'. What is Proton doing?

 

[ixeo]

i doesnt have to be MOMO or RECARO or SPARCO OR BRIDO OR SSCUSSO to be a good design.

In my opinion current Satria Neo with R3 bodykit have a good nice Alcantara seat..and the Suprima, even though seat design not that great but very comfy..

that MOMO steering on the Satria R3 are very ugly..opinion differs..

Show me a seat, for a sporty focused car, that is NOT from a Supercar (Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, McLaren etc.) and it is NOT a RECARO that

1. LOOKS GOOD
2. Functions well.

Cause I don't see any. Golf GTi seat looks good? Functions well? Not really, I slide in that seat, have you seen the seat in a Megane RS Cup? That baby looks the part, and holds you in place.

SURE, if you talk about Pagani, their seats are A-W-E-S-O-M-E, both in DESIGN and function. Its not even a Recaro!

Otherwise, really? Proton can make a seat BETTER than Recaro? Have you seen current generation Recaro and current generation Momo? You feel Satria R3 Momo very ugly? Now is 2013, even you look uglier than you did back in 2000. I don't blame you if you feel Satria R3 Momo look ugly now.

how can everyone keep blaming top management/people who run it as a cause for ugly car?

are they purposely choose the ugly one to keep their profit? to keep their cronies? like I said earlier, other manufacturer does produced ugly cars too..
I bet when in automotive industries, ugliness is a common thing.

just wait for the EMAS..i should be magnificent.

THAT, IS THE PROBLEM WITH MALAYSIA [strike]GOVERNMENT[/strike] MANAGEMENT MENTALITY

Petrol price go up in Malaysia - We are the cheapest compared to other countries
Broadband internet price high - We are the cheapest compared to other third world countries - EH WHY YOU NO COMPARE TO USA? I thought we want to be developed country?

DO NOT compare with FAILURES of other PEOPLE. If you design a piece of shit, don't point at Renault and say "look they design shit too".

YOU WANT TO IMPROVE, you compare yourself with the BEST.

That's the problem, keep pointing at other people's fault to justify your own rubbish. NOW, we know what is finally wrong.

I gave very good comparison what, TESLA, their first car was not even designed by them, it was a Lotus Elise - OWNED BY PROTON. Their 2nd car, they design in house, looks way better than ANYTHING Proton has designed, ever.

SO YOU TELL ME, WHY TESLA CAN DO IT, WHEN THEIR FIRST CAR WAS BASED ON LOTUS, AND PROTON CANNOT DO IT WHEN THEY OWN LOTUS? Proton bodoh?

Don't talk roosters about Lada and other manufacturers, they DO NOT OWN LOTUS, and they DO NOT USE LOTUS. We talk apples to apples comparison.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

people like you who would say Datuk Lee Chong Wei is not good because he keeps losing to Lin Dan..
and Zulfahmi Khairuddin just got 13th for today qualifying..why no no 1? Luis Salom (not today) can do it why not him?

i feel that Golf GTi seat was good...it is not now..as you said..cause Recaro is the only way..
hmm, my opinion Citroen DS4 and 208 GTi seat is good...i might differ from you..your ass not similar as mine...

Fiat owns Ferrari...since 1969...look at the Multipla..

I not defending Proton just for the sake of self interest..just, let they do their job...i don't bought a Savvy or Juara...we have a lot more choice..thickening up your wallet could yield you more choices...

seems like you know well how Proton or R3 runs...i dont know how deep the involvement of Lotus in Proton...they help with Campro engine, car design (interior and exterior), ride and handling...and so on..

i don't know why Proton produce ugly cars...maybe their market researcher found out that Malaysians didnt care how their cars look..they just car about power and safety...thus Proton give 4~6 airbags and 200Nm in their Preve..failed again..

 

[ixeo]

people like you who would say Datuk Lee Chong Wei is not good because he keeps losing to Lin Dan..
and Zulfahmi Khairuddin just got 13th for today qualifying..why no no 1? Luis Salom (not today) can do it why not him?

Encik, I thought we are talking about design? And talking about car manufacturer? You said focus on design why you talk about Datuk and losing.

i feel that Golf GTi seat was good...it is not now..as you said..cause Recaro is the only way..
hmm, my opinion Citroen DS4 and 208 GTi seat is good...i might differ from you..your ass not similar as mine...

It is irrelevant what you and I feel, Golf GTi did not clock the fastest FWD in Nurburgring, the Megane RS Cup did. And it had a Recaro inside. I have not seen a DS4 and 208 GTi, but I doubt it can be better than the Recaro in the Megane RS Cup.

Fiat owns Ferrari...since 1969...look at the Multipla..

Fair enough, Fiat as a company is making money, not because of protection from government in Italy, but because they do export their cars outside of Italy and they own a lot of assets, Ferrari, Maserati and they are cash rich. If you got the money, you can make all the ugly cars you want. For every Multipla they don't sell, their Fiat 500 is flying off the showroom floors. Now you tell me, which Proton model is flying off the showrooms? Which is export? Which is a success in various markets and countries? The Fiat 500 is one. Proton's got none. The closest one is the Satria Neo, but sadly the average Caucasians are taller than the average Asian, so they won't fit even if they wanted to. Oh by the way, Lotus Cars is losing money.

I not defending Proton just for the sake of self interest..just, let they do their job...i don't bought a Savvy or Juara...we have a lot more choice..thickening up your wallet could yield you more choices...

They are doing a shit job, don't you agree? Let them continue doing their shit job is what you are suggesting?

seems like you know well how Proton or R3 runs...i dont know how deep the involvement of Lotus in Proton...they help with Campro engine, car design (interior and exterior), ride and handling...and so on..

The involvement of Lotus? I'm not sure if you are aware how it works. Proton owns 100% of Lotus, FULLY OWNS Lotus. Proton can do WHATEVER THE HELL THEY PLEASE with Lotus. Cause, Proton is paying the bills for the losses of Lotus.

So like I said, get the people in Lotus who designed the 5 concept cars in Paris to design Proton cars, and fire the entire Proton team. Problem solved. Did you see how BEAUTIFUL they are?

This is a 4 door sedan, tweak it a bit with "Proton DNA" and you have a winner

i don't know why Proton produce ugly cars...maybe their market researcher found out that Malaysians didnt care how their cars look..they just car about power and safety...thus Proton give 4~6 airbags and 200Nm in their Preve..failed again..

Maybe their market researchers are stupid and give them wrong information? Possible? But tell me which Proton car is a "success"? The Persona & Saga is priced CHEAPER than the Myvi, yet the best selling #1 car is Myvi, why is that?

The Saga & Persona are bigger cars, sedan, better handling than the Myvi, more stable on highway (Persona). It sure looks like a bargain compared to Myvi, but Myvi is #1. You don't need "market researchers" to tell you why.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

Encik, I thought we are talking about design? And talking about car manufacturer? You said focus on design why you talk about Datuk and losing.



It is irrelevant what you and I feel, Golf GTi did not clock the fastest FWD in Nurburgring, the Megane RS Cup did. And it had a Recaro inside. I have not seen a DS4 and 208 GTi, but I doubt it can be better than the Recaro in the Megane RS Cup.

Fair enough, Fiat as a company is making money, not because of protection from government in Italy, but because they do export their cars outside of Italy and they own a lot of assets, Ferrari, Maserati and they are cash rich. If you got the money, you can make all the ugly cars you want. For every Multipla they don't sell, their Fiat 500 is flying off the showroom floors. Now you tell me, which Proton model is flying off the showrooms? Which is export? Which is a success in various markets and countries? The Fiat 500 is one. Proton's got none. The closest one is the Satria Neo, but sadly the average Caucasians are taller than the average Asian, so they won't fit even if they wanted to. Oh by the way, Lotus Cars is losing money.



They are doing a shit job, don't you agree? Let them continue doing their shit job is what you are suggesting?



The involvement of Lotus? I'm not sure if you are aware how it works. Proton owns 100% of Lotus, FULLY OWNS Lotus. Proton can do WHATEVER THE HELL THEY PLEASE with Lotus. Cause, Proton is paying the bills for the losses of Lotus.

So like I said, get the people in Lotus who designed the 5 concept cars in Paris to design Proton cars, and fire the entire Proton team. Problem solved. Did you see how BEAUTIFUL they are?

This is a 4 door sedan, tweak it a bit with "Proton DNA" and you have a winner

Maybe their market researchers are stupid and give them wrong information? Possible? But tell me which Proton car is a "success"? The Persona & Saga is priced CHEAPER than the Myvi, yet the best selling #1 car is Myvi, why is that?

The Saga & Persona are bigger cars, sedan, better handling than the Myvi, more stable on highway (Persona). It sure looks like a bargain compared to Myvi, but Myvi is #1. You don't need "market researchers" to tell you why.

You're contradicting yourself..

We MUST compares with the best...not lower...thus Lee Chong Wei are not the best...Malaysian wont be satisfied with 2nd place..

Do you need to be the fastest in Nurburgring to claim that you have the best seat?

I dont think Satria Neo failure due to interior size..Fiat 500 are smaller...its due to quality, fuel consumption, history and brand name..

Yes, they are doing shit job..whining here not making they better in their job. Apply there and improve them might be the best choice..or send them your design for consideration..or collect money, buy Proton Holdings and start from the top..

Yes, those are beautiful concept cars, and it went bust..Proton's fault..you can go over the top for concept cars, but when it come to production, lot of things must be considered...I salute proton for the design of Gen-2 rear boot.. and it went into production...

Myvi success not due to good design...it's like 'Katak'...it is due to quality and brand perception..

Other manufacturer giving 5 years warranty, Malaysian said they confident with the quality of their cars..
Proton giving 5 years warranty, Malaysian said because to convince customer any problem within that 5 years can send back to Proton for replacement..

Combining good design with sales success is just wrong..Ford F-150 are beautiful? Beetle? C2V?
It just need to be cheap, reliable and functional to get a good sales.

Good design helps...but not necessarily..

 

[ixeo]

You're contradicting yourself..

You said talk about design, why you mention Lee Chong Wei?

We MUST compares with the best...not lower...thus Lee Chong Wei are not the best...Malaysian wont be satisfied with 2nd place..

Just to humor you, Datuk Lee #1 World Ranking..so if he isn't the best.. you comparing with aliens?

Do you need to be the fastest in Nurburgring to claim that you have the best seat?

You can't do it if you sit in a plastic chair in the driver's seat...interior design is part of design.

I dont think Satria Neo failure due to interior size..Fiat 500 are smaller...its due to quality, fuel consumption, history and brand name..

Hahahahaha, nobody would buy a car where they can't sit straight inside. The Mini cooper is also small, but can seat comfortably inside without the head against the roof of the car. I can't sit straight in the Neo without feeling claustrophobic.

Yes, they are doing shit job..whining here not making they better in their job.

Nope. Stop buying their cars might force them to do a better job.

Apply there and improve them might be the best choice..or send them your design for consideration..

-Off topic- You say talk about design.

or collect money, buy Proton Holdings and start from the top..

-Off topic- You say talk about design.

Yes, those are beautiful concept cars, and it went bust..Proton's fault..you can go over the top for concept cars, but when it come to production, lot of things must be considered...I salute proton for the design of Gen-2 rear boot.. and it went into production...

Gen2 & Persona looks ok. Not "wow" but sure. But things aren't improving with Preve and Suprima S. As for Lotus going bust, we don't know the reason, but we know they can design cars. So, skill, know-how for designs is not a problem with Proton and Lotus. The question - WHAT IS?

Myvi success not due to good design...it's like 'Katak'...it is due to quality and brand perception..

Hyundai's brand perception was not good 20 years ago. Today their designs are raved upon. No?

Other manufacturer giving 5 years warranty, Malaysian said they confident with the quality of their cars..
Proton giving 5 years warranty, Malaysian said because to convince customer any problem within that 5 years can send back to Proton for replacement..

-Off topic- You say talk about design.

Combining good design with sales success is just wrong..Ford F-150 are beautiful? Beetle? C2V?
It just need to be cheap, reliable and functional to get a good sales.

Good design helps...but not necessarily..

Ford F-150 is indeed well designed. Beetle too, its iconic, its not my cup of tea but I admit its pretty cute for a chick to drive. As for "cheap, reliable & functional". I don't know. Ugly cars like the Multipla you mentioned doesn't sell that well. Have yet to see any ugly car that sells well.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

You said talk about design, why you mention Lee Chong Wei?



Just to humor you, Datuk Lee #1 World Ranking..so if he isn't the best.. you comparing with aliens?



You can't do it if you sit in a plastic chair in the driver's seat...interior design is part of design.



Hahahahaha, nobody would buy a car where they can't sit straight inside. The Mini cooper is also small, but can seat comfortably inside without the head against the roof of the car. I can't sit straight in the Neo without feeling claustrophobic.



Nope. Stop buying their cars might force them to do a better job.



-Off topic- You say talk about design.



-Off topic- You say talk about design.



Gen2 & Persona looks ok. Not "wow" but sure. But things aren't improving with Preve and Suprima S. As for Lotus going bust, we don't know the reason, but we know they can design cars. So, skill, know-how for designs is not a problem with Proton and Lotus. The question - WHAT IS?



Hyundai's brand perception was not good 20 years ago. Today their designs are raved upon. No?



-Off topic- You say talk about design.



Ford F-150 is indeed well designed. Beetle too, its iconic, its not my cup of tea but I admit its pretty cute for a chick to drive. As for "cheap, reliable & functional". I don't know. Ugly cars like the Multipla you mentioned doesn't sell that well. Have yet to see any ugly car that sells well.

if that plastic chair looks good, why not...afterall its all about DESIGN...

the latest Satria Neo with R3 bodykit have lower seat (if im not wrong)...thus you can sit straight in that..

yup, not buying their product will get them to improve...or they might gone bankrupt..
but remember that if you buy from other marque (not local), you surely end up paying more for tax to the government...and they will help proton with your money..

either keep your current car, or buy hybrid car, or buy used car, or buy from Naza, Inokom, or Perodua..too bad I just bought a Proton few months ago.. it's ok i think cause its not their design at the 1st place..

ugly cars dont sells well, but dont expect good looking cars to sell well...especially if its made by Proton..

go to Proton showroom and tells the sales agent that this Proton car (show that you interested) are damn ugly..everything else is OK...thus you're not buying it..our words might be spread..

 

[hex999]

Sorry for going offtopic, but for all this to apply, proton must first change their mindset which is to build a better car and not solely for money. As long if their aim is money, they will never improve because they will keep thinking of ways on cutting cost, for example using cheap grade materials,shitty designs because its probably cheaper to manufacture, cut cost on car development, etc. Proton is also probably forced to used those cheap parts to "support" the government cronies. If they can start to think ahead,(Build a great car=Improve proton's image internationally= more sales= WIN). I believe there is a lot of internal problems that is holding proton back, probably because of politics.

 

[kcng]

Wahahaha. In the end, Proton make cars they want to sell, they don't make cars we want to buy. That's the problem. They are too used to the fact that we are FORCED to buy their rubbish.

how many units will you buy for them to justify making this model/sending it into production?

make sense from a business point of view?

heck even satria neo auto is selling at a ratio of 3:1 compared to the manuals...
not forgetting those bullshit who rave about CFE/preve/suprima manual but then brought auto because the reason given is KL banyak jam laaa.....

cheh

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

how many units will you buy for them to justify making this model/sending it into production?

make sense from a business point of view?

heck even satria neo auto is selling at a ratio of 3:1 compared to the manuals...
not forgetting those bullshit who rave about CFE/preve/suprima manual but then brought auto because the reason given is KL banyak jam laaa.....

cheh

i'm more than happy to swap my autobox proton with manualbox