DIY Water powered car

[donCityZ]

Lets bring down the price of oil!!!!

Recently got a Malay scientist create Hydroxene.. the fuel+water-powered car which can reduce FC by 50%.

We oso can DIY it. Check out: http://www.waterpoweredcar.com

The concept is simple: Water Electrolysis = H20 --> apply electricity, and result is breaking of O2 and H gases at the 2 different electrodes.

Me and colleage tried it at by just using tap water and apply around 60V across two wires dipped into the container of water. gases being produced.. and burn efficiently (blue color). this process can be accelerated by adding a few drops of acids/vinegar... (so we can actualy create our own fuel)..

Anyone dare to try it to ur car??? Hydrogen is explosive, as long as it is injected directly to air intake hose, and continuously, should be ok. If u think about it, our fuel oso is damn explosive, but handled properly, it is OK. Dont inject the O2 produced into air intake since more O2 means more fuel. If input Hydrogen, fuel will be less as O2 sensor at exhaust will detect engine burn too lean, and reduces fuel..... ==>>> reduce FC!!!

Just to share this info wif everyone... knowledge is for everyone and shud be free!
If u got money, u could try fabricate a container with electrodes made with stainless steels plates (similar to battery plates) (to increase area of exposure to water so that more gases could be released).

If u got experimental 2nd car, its a worth thing to try. But, safety first.. take care!

 

[gohkokeng]

donCityZ
we wait for your project research result on your car ok?

hahaha

 

[1298]

...If input Hydrogen, fuel will be less as O2 sensor at exhaust will detect engine burn too lean, and reduces fuel..... ==>>> reduce FC!!!

Wrong statement but good info. For what I know, if engine detects lean mixtures, it will supply more fuel so that the engine won't detonate. I'm sure the O2 engine structure is different from gasoline engines that we are using now.

Otherwise people out there would have replaced their NOS system with cooking gas already, explosive mah...hahaa.

 

[donCityZ]

wopps.. sorry i meant to say "too rich" not "too lean"...

goh.. wa.. i scared wor to try on my car. later explode die..

but in the US, many ppl are DIYing it. if u see the website,
got pic the electrolysis device already installed into engine.

if i do it, maybe not directly put to car le.. maybe just prototype..
but concept is quite simple. my colleague is go ahead with this..
see whether he explode his car or not.. kekeke...

 

[gohkokeng]

actually US got people use those French Fries Greese(forgot the word) to replace fuel also

i forgot what program liao like Ripley's Believe it or not

 

[donCityZ]

US ppl try hard to find alternative coz they dowan depend on Middle East for oil.
Japan also same. Thats why Honda and Toyota already came up with Fuel+Electric hybrid car. So less fuel consumtion... less demand.. price of fuel wont hike so high.

The French Fries Grease idea is not so cun... need to cook etc.. so many process.

This water powered car idea is damn cun. Water is so abundant in our world. some more clean combustion. Hydrogen burn result is water!! so if there is a system that can electrolysis generate hydrogen, burn in engine, water came out.. then recycle back to input... WAHH!! no need to top up water forever can run the engine.

Any genius out there want to try? Dont make money out of it la.. just distribute the technology as free.. same as the UNIX ppl making UNIX/LINUX the open source.

 

[BluecluBBy]

careful guy's ...imagine if there's leak or crash that puncture your hydrogen tank!!!!

we might have our own home brew H-Bomb..

hahahaha..

 

[mike xtreme]

US ppl try hard to find alternative coz they dowan depend on Middle East for oil.
Japan also same. Thats why Honda and Toyota already came up with Fuel+Electric hybrid car. So less fuel consumtion... less demand.. price of fuel wont hike so high.

The French Fries Grease idea is not so cun... need to cook etc.. so many process.

This water powered car idea is damn cun. Water is so abundant in our world. some more clean combustion. Hydrogen burn result is water!! so if there is a system that can electrolysis generate hydrogen, burn in engine, water came out.. then recycle back to input... WAHH!! no need to top up water forever can run the engine.

Any genius out there want to try? Dont make money out of it la.. just distribute the technology as free.. same as the UNIX ppl making UNIX/LINUX the open source.

then ur car will be as big as a van with the power of a kancil...the technologies for tat particular stuff is still new n yet not fully efficient

 

[Sky_Legend]

Hydrogen + Oxygen = explosion

this is the combustion that Rockets (rocket engines) are using.

So, basically we are breaking up the H2O into H and O2 and make use of the H to burn?

cool...

 

[gohkokeng]

perhaps the LMG car got 2 exhaust system......1 for fuel another for water like pee lol

 

[c-ground]

60V?

Where can you get 60V from the engine?

It's mere 14V at 70A. even it's running at full load, it produces just 0.98kW of electrical power.

Lets see what this 0.98kW of electrical power can do.

0.98kW of power, even at 100% efficiency, needs 4.5 hours to splits 1000 gm of water into 112 gm of H2 and 888 gm of O2.

energy level of hydrogen is 141.6 kJ/gm. Meaning each gram of hydrogen produce 141.6 kJ of energy after complete combustion.

Let's say the combustion of the H2 is at 100% efficiency also. Making 15.87 MJ in 4.5 hours produces the same power generated by the alternator (0.98kW).

No performance drop, lesser fossil fuel (petrol) being consumed. Sound perfect huh?

Not quite!

First: You need more than 0.98kW of engine power to produce the said 0.98kW electrical power. In adddition, your alternator can't be running at full load at all time. Energy is lost in the form of heat after the combustion, friction, etc.

Second: Conventional electrolysis has never been 100% efficient. You lost some electrical energy in the form of heat. Thus, the amount of hydrogen produced will be much lesser than expected and contains lower total energy level.

Third: Combustion of hydrogen can be very efficient. However, same as petrol, not all the energy is converted into mechanical (engine) energy. Energy lost as heat.

So, now what?

Energy level of the hydrogen produced is much lower than the energy required to produce the hydrogen. We can expect a performance drop. Can we expect a drop in fuel consumption too? Since some hydrogen is produced to replace petrol as fuel, maybe.

You know what... you can do that by de-tuning the engine so that it consume less fuel and produce less power. Why do we need hydrogen then?

 

[c-ground]

However, there's always other form of energy (other than electrical) in the engine bay.

You have lots of energy lost as heat. These are wasted energy and if can be scarvenged for some good use, will improve the efficiency of the engine.

High-temperature (steam) Electrolysis uses heat to aid the efficiency of electrolysis. Heat is easily available in the engine bay. The heat can be taken from the radiator, exhaust header, etc, to produce steam from water.

The steam then can be injected onto some special electrodes, with some solid state electrolyte in between. The steam is then converted into hydrogen and oxygen.

You don't need the oxygen, release them to the atmosphere.

Hydrogen produced, together with small amount of residual steam, can then be channel into the intake plenum.

Questions:

1. how much heat can be taken from the engine so that the performance is not affected?
2. how much heat is required to boil the water?
3. how much the "special electrodes" cost?

 

[donCityZ]

careful guy's ...imagine if there's leak or crash that puncture your hydrogen tank!!!!

we might have our own home brew H-Bomb..

hahahaha..

BlueClubby.. thats what most ppl say to discourage u. Try to think about it for a while. Fuel is also as combustible as hydrogen. Fuel fumes also ignites readily.. thats why the caution at petrol station to not smoking etc. Its because fuel fumes can cause flame meters away from the fuel itself.

And the hydrogen only comes out if there are supplies to the terminals.. and the supply comes from battery. we could make a failsafe device .. for example a fuse which blows when there is a impact similar to sensor that activate the airbags.
and also, we will not be keeping a lot of hydrogen gases in the tank... its a small tank and the hydrogen generated immediately being transfered to engine and burns immediately.

 

[donCityZ]

c-ground,

u can even get AC 240V from car battery.

its a common design in electrical ccts.. called Convertors... DC-AC and DC-DC.
my fren once made a DC-AC converter to run his old Desktop PC in his old car...

BUT, with enough surface area and little gap (as small as 3-5mm), 12V is more than enough. I do not know about Energy levels.. but Hydrogen energy is surely MUCH MORE than fuel. thus replacing fuel energy is possible.

for ur info, water powered engines are so popular in the US, that a lot of machines in factories has been using it. If u see the photo in the website mentioned and some videos in it, u will see that it actually works. But, they added 1-3% acid as cataliyst to speed up the process. Vinegar also is an acid and so is lemon juice. So it is readily available.

We can be negative about it and continue to please oil companies. Or, we can try make a difference...

 

[jswong]

C-ground,

Great analysis there.

And, don't forget - If we want to power a car by electrolysis, we'll actually be using MORE power to split the water than the amount of combustion energy gained. Maybe it will give slightly better fuel efficiency, but overall there will not be a nett gain in power. There's no such thing as free lunch, laws of energy conservation and law of entropy still applies.

For the LMG's case, they mentioned this stuff - "High compression nanotechnology", which is obviously a marketing term to obscure the actual underlying technology.

But what is certain is that they won't rely solely on electrolysis to produce the hydrogen.. Apparently the Hydroxene unit has a finite service lifespan, which means that it's possible that they're using a catalytic reaction to produce the hydrogen.

Alternately, water has polar covalent bonds, that's why hydrogen and oxygen can be separated by electrolysis easily in the first place. This polarization is also affected by magnetic fields, so probably a strong magnetic field can be used to augment electrolysis by making it easier to break the polar covalent bonds.

They mentioned about 'nanotechnology'. The only possibility I can see is that they're having nano-scale structures, like nanotubes, whose diameter correspond to the narrowest portion of the water molecule's dipole separation, forcing the water molecules to move through the nanotubes in only a particular orientation. Couple that with extremely strong magnetic fields from permanent magnets, we'll know exactly how the water molecules will be polarized because we're exposing only one particular face of the molecule to the magnetic field. Possibly the polar covalent bonds might even be on the verge of splitting under these conditions, so electrolysis won't be such a lengthy process when the water molecules are subjected to these conditions.

 

[c-ground]

u can even get AC 240V from car battery.

It's called an inverter but....

First, we don't need AC from for electrolysis!

Second, converting to higher voltage but lower current still produce the same power as,

P = V x I, and
output = input x efficiency (%)

Since energy is lost as heat during the conversion, the output power is even lower.

I do not know about Energy levels.. but Hydrogen energy is surely MUCH MORE than fuel. thus replacing fuel energy is possible.

Hydrogen has higher energy level? Let's see...

H2 energy level = 12.7 kJ/L
petrol energy level = 32 MJ/L (>2,500 times than H2!)

Even H2 combustion is more efficient, it still can't match what is produced by combusting petrol!

they added 1-3% acid as cataliyst to speed up the process. Vinegar also is an acid and so is lemon juice. So it is readily available.

Acid, salts what ever, they are called electrolytes, not catalysts. Electrolytes increase the current flowing through the solution.

I however agree on you about the "surface area and gap". For that, one will need to have electrodes made of compacted inert metallic nanoparticles, such as nano-platinum/nickel powder. Go make that.

As in high-temperature electrolysis, one don't need aqueous electrolytes. What one needs is solid state electrolytes such as dopped metal oxides. Okay.. go make that.

 

[c-ground]

And, don't forget - If we want to power a car by electrolysis, we'll actually be using MORE power to split the water than the amount of combustion energy gained. Maybe it will give slightly better fuel efficiency, but overall there will not be a nett gain in power. There's no such thing as free lunch, laws of energy conservation and law of entropy still applies.

That's exactly my point!

Strong magnetic field, probably, as it's also a form of energy other than heat. However, scarvenging heat will be a more reliable way as heat is produced as waste. Scarvenging the heat for good use will improve the efficiency of the engine.

To produce sufficiently striong magnetic field, we need.. err... more electricity?

 

[c-ground]

They mentioned about 'nanotechnology'. The only possibility I can see is that they're having nano-scale structures, like nanotubes, whose diameter correspond to the narrowest portion of the water molecule's dipole separation, forcing the water molecules to move through the nanotubes in only a particular orientation

Bingo!

candidates are compacted nanoparticles of inert metal or carbon naotubes (CNT). I know a group of scienctist in UPM working on the CNT.

As for the solid state electrolyte, my friend is working on it in UPM too.

I myself is doing some nanocomposite stuffs but not directly related to electrochemistry.

 

[jswong]

donCityZ,

Yes, you can use inverters to get a higher voltage but you won't get a higher power. A 150-watt inverter probably draws 180 DC watts for the 150 AC watts that it outputs. Higher voltage out, but the output power is definitely lesser than the input power.

The specific power output from hydrogen is probably very high, but then again look at the quantity of hydrogen that you can get.. the molar density is so low some more.. if we do only electrolysis, we'll need a really big tub just to get a little hydrogen. We definitely need something more than just electrolysis in order to get bigger gains.

 

[c-ground]

Good to have you sharing the same view.

However, energy level (per liter) of petrol is > 2,500 times than that of hydrogen. Even at 100% combustion efficiency, it stil can't match what is produced by petrol at 22% combustion efficiency (78% wasted as heat & sound).

However, the best core process is still electrolysis but we certainly need other forms of energy other than electrical energy.

As one cannot create or destroy energy, where do we get those energy?