car modification on petrol saving

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rollakid

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ahren said:
escaflown, i want to mod for performance. But as i mentioned previous page that the old 1.3 wira FC rate is 25cent per km which is unreasonably high. I had made some research on the posts here and other forum. The high performance car such as turbo , their FC rate is also 25 cent per KM.

To pay such high petrol fees for underpower performance engine, I rather spend some money to get a better HP engine. My concern here is, among all the high performance engines (4G91,4G91, etc etc ) which 1 least FC?

Sifu sifu here please bear with me.. due to my limited knowledge on the car mod, so i might ask some stupid question here..

cheers
hi there,

from my recent experience on engine transplant, there is one thing i learn *after* i change the engine.

-- you never change your engine for a higher powered engine just for their "better FC", you transplant them cuz you want power.

some might not agree with what i say, i'll understand, cuz not everyone drives the same as i do. I make a list of reason why i want to replace my pushrod engine, one of them is the new engine gives better FC AND better power, but after the transplant i figure out i need 30 years to earn back from savings from petrol money for my investment.

so.. screw the better FC idea, unless ofcourse you already pay rm1000 a month and you can save like rm300 a month with the new engine.

oh ya, btw, yes i agree with you 4g13 with 25cent/km is outrageous. it should be around 15cent/km, sampled from my mom's daily ride.

about mitsu's engine, if you are not into racing or high performance engine, 4g91 twin cam would be nice IMHO, mitsu sifu around zth already say its not a performance engine, but then it is still an upgrade over the 4g13. You may or may not earn back your investment through the transplant, but the power increase should prove worth while.

just my 2 cent.


--edit--
or maybe its just your engine getting old and dirty, maybe if you overhaul it then it will go back to normal and give good fc like all 4g13 should =P.
 

DarkAccoon

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always remember that in car mod, especially for performance, there is a quote which goes

"with great power, comes deeper pockets"

so there is no such thing as more power and less FC (i notice this is the gimmick that most noob fall for)


lets not talk about how many cents per km as the price of petrol always change

let's convert it to how many km per litre of petrol
currently my wira 1.3 GLi is clocking me about 12 to 15km per litre
all i did was maintain the engine in tip top condition
service it every 5k with semi syn


power wise... straight road is definately kinda terrible
but then my car is modded towards the handling side
so i have literally "murdered" a few higher end cars than mine is my area which has lots of curves
but i did lose to a kancil which taking a corner (take note, the car is a kancil and the driver is most probably a monster to take that corner faster than me)

want better FC
here is what i did
- changed my spare tyre to the type that is the same as honda
- change to 13" alloy rims (this one gives significant FC and overall okok handling if u have the proper setup)
- lose weight
- throw out all ur ICE (my ice is something i could not give up)
- get rid of ur gf (this one can easily lose at least 40 kg and above)


see, there are lots of things in car mod that is so different from others
which is what that makes car mod so unique
so, dun just take our words before going for a mod
do some research urself (by research i meant using the search buttons and not simply posting questions waiting for it to be answered)
10k is not enough if u are planning to do performance mod
trust me in this, once u have transplant the engine, then comes the reliability issue
if unlucky, u get crappy engine, mati lorrr


4G13 is a reliable and average potiential engine
just get used to it first before increasing its power ya
having a wira as a base platform is good, u get to learn lots of things
it took me 6 months before i realised the proper way to push the power out of my engine ya
 

ahren

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Fstrader is my question bothering you? Sorry for that coz I really know nothing about car. I am listening what they said here, and i am coming here to learn. If not i won't use yahoo to search this webpage and get myself registered in this forum :)

yes i do not hav much money to mod but friend around me they mod their car with less than 5K to get a turbo (it doesn't mean i want to get turbo). I am not want to mod my car like innitial D. I jz want extra power and better FC (at least someone said in this forum his 4G91 is 16cent /km which is much better than my current wira 25cent /km). The way you said like now is actually discouraging newbie like me to continue gain my knowledge here. And if any offencing you, i apology again.

Darkaccon and rollakids, thank for your patience toward my question and noble ideas :) The underpower i describe to my wira is not that i didnt satisfy its power but it took me tekan minyak kuat kuat before the wira start to moving. And this wira is hardly pickup :(. I totally agreed better HP will tradeoff with worse FC. But for my wira case, i need to tekan minyak kuat kuat to move the car forward. very very bad in pickup. So underpower ( lost power ?) engine is quite bad in FC. That's move me to look for a better engine.

Actually in other forum, there is someone recommend me to get 4G91 too. Perhaps i should not say i want a performance engine. But infact i want something to replace the old underpower/lost power engine. Yes i might not able to earn back the investment. But at least i will satisfy from it and get rid of title as a tortoise for my wira :P

Again, i come here to learn.. pls forgive me for my "noobness"
 

fstr

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hello... first of all, u are not bothering me, and my advises are as good as others. sp pls screen thru wat i say before u say something drastic like that, and pls bear in mind i was just trying to help!
 

riq

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Bro ahren....

Its ok to be newbie here..plus u r very lucky coz a lot of sifus has replying to your very subjective question…I’m also newbie here…what I did as newbie is…just search all of the thread here.. more you read…more you getting to know what actually you want for your car…

Back to your situation…there is a lot of ways your will achieve your target…your can restore back your 4G13 performance by doing the intensive restoration (overhaul & change anything that has wear or tear)…but if you insist to change your engine…there is not only 4G series form mitsu halfcut you can consider…how about 4G15P??….it maybe not so much powerful compare to 4G91/92/93/63…but at least 4G15 will get you accelerate easily compare to your 4G13…plus it will give you a very good fuel consumption… and you can save a lot of money from your RM5K budget where you can spend the balance to upgrade your suspension…tires… (that 97 wira must have terrible ride right?) and plus new HU maybe… if you ever considering my opinion…try to get the newer 4G15P one…especially from wira se….there are plenty of wira se owner already/planning to convert their engine…and as usual…try search again…I’m sure you will find what you want..

Just my 1.5 cent
 

rollakid

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fstrader said:
hello... first of all, u are not bothering me, and my advises are as good as others. sp pls screen thru wat i say before u say something drastic like that, and pls bear in mind i was just trying to help!
must.. listen.. to.. unker's advice..... especially hamsap stuff.. hahahahahahahahahahaha


anyway ahren,
you mention you have to "tekan minyak kuat kuat" before it will move? well yeah sure 4g13 you need to do that, but thats the prob. you step on your throttle too much on an underpowered engine then the FC will definitely be bad. 4g13 honestly is not for driving hard, you have to go really slow or go for highway driving to be able to get that 15cent/km, slow as in you won't wake a sleeping person in the passenger seat when you are driving ;)
 

escaflowne

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ah ren,

fred brother also stated a good point also la..wat we actually wanna tell you is that.Dun try to transplant first,FC is VERY VERY VERY subjective.So there is not instant and absolute outcome after your new transplanted engine vs ur FC.
As i need to say again FC is very very very subjective.

Wat i can suggest you to do is,

such FC for your 4g13 means that something must be going the wrong way.
If it is carbie,try clean ur carbie,check and tune ur A/F,check if any little stuff that gone wrong.
If injection,try clean the TB,if possible send for an ECU check up session at any proton service centre.

There is alot of factors that contribute to high FC.
1)Dun use oversize tyre,oem one is the best
2)Check your tyre pressure,make sure it is under proper pressure
3)are you having alot of stuff in your car,if yess clear it out.You can refer to darkaccorn bro post above for the spare tyre replacement
4)Overall check for the engine parts,an exp mech will do the job.Any old faulty parts,plz replace it

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT : Your driving pattern!!!!

Jaga ur right foot,dun rev dun hentam,drive unker speed.And drive at your car optimum vehicle speed,normally 80-90,owner's manual will have that.

Others extra
1)open window while driving(normal for us smoking kaki rite?) will actually increase drag,and u r throwing $$ out
2)Dun let ur car idle too long when it come to a stop,it waste ur petrol as well
3)dun warm up ur car,instead the car can warm out onces u drive it..
4)hard accel and hard stop waste ur petrol too
Actually all this you can GOOGLE one.And yes dun be mistaken you MIGHT get a better FC after transplant and MIGHT NOT.
And this is normal human mindset as well,onces you taruk a better engine inside,you wouldn't dun put on heavy weight on your right foot rite?

With the money u budget for a transplant,i reckon you to use that money(might be alot of lesser) to do a overall detail check on your car engine,follow the way to avoid unnecessary fuel wasting.AND,if you want nice FC,prepare just drive slow steady all the time.
Again,you can only get a side when you flip a coint you see..hope you understand.

"I jz want extra power and better FC (at least someone said in this forum his 4G91 is 16cent /km which is much better than my current wira 25cent /km)"

EXTRA POWER NO BETTER FC,4g91 16cent/km is possible if you drive steady(refer to above).I can drive a turbo engine without letting it to boost,and cruise everytime at 80-90,without hard braking and any fancy stuff,If my engine is in a nice condition,i can get a good FC as well,but i ain't going fast or power.

Engine has Input and Output.To make it easier to understand,Input is your fuel/air,output is your exhaust gas and Power generated(in kW,bhp,hp,ps etc).
So you see,our reciprocal engine behave in a way that you put in an amount of Input,there will be the "somewhat" equivalent of output you got(we are talking power here). Bare in mind,alot of ppl also think something like you that "i want power and better FC"..is actually i want the same/less Input but more Output(power),impossible dude,if possible,you actually go against thermodynamic law.What you heard or see is,something has been made to increase the effieciency of the engine,so you get the suppose output with the suppose input for your engine.When ur engine is efficient,hence appropriate power and resonable FC. If someone said,do this and that you get power and reduce FC.Bare in mind,they are making your engine more efficient.The effieciency of an engine is fixed OEM(there is formula to calculate it),most of the time due to some other factor,efficiency will reduce .

Duno you understand or not,but when u try to read up some physics and google with the proper keyword,you will get the answer.Hope this help.
 

ahren

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fstrader i apology with u again with the harsh word. In future still alot of thing need tunjuk ajar from you :)

and thanks for all for letting me know engine transplant is not the only way to get better FC for car.

appreciate alot :-)
 

fstr

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no worries laa bro...we are here to help, many sifoos here will help u out...

allo esca...stau tuned for GRA!! ahahahahhahahah :p
 

Dino@Casper

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Honestly like they all said.. ur FC is ridiculous.. all of my friends using 4G13 using carb also can get better milelage than ur car..

Like all of them said.. no point u going modding with out thinking first.. and like they said FC is very subjective.. different driving styles would give u different FC even on the same engine..
 

kyheng

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For 7 years old 1.3 Wira, you cannot expect much. But like others said 0.25 per km is too much. Few things you have to check already like engine mounting, timing belt, idling timing, clucth and others. Can consider a top overhaul also. Then after all done, then adjust the timing to around 800-1000. Change to 9.5mm plug cable and Bosch Super4(total around rm170). It will more or less help you on FC and some minor performance increase. Don't expect your 1.3 engine will perform like an 1.5 engine.
 

hi1983

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i mod my waja that gave better power and FC, how to say?

becos of point , power efficiency + ICE for driving mod.

you must check your engine best efficiens rpm, than mod it to lower or higher the power efficiency band to your mostly drive.

simple keep clean your engine air intake, oil pressure,
 

fstr

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for my case, 4g15 carb, rebore and with some cams... 20 bucks about 10.40litres running on 3k rpm gearchanges, i get exactly 98km's b4 1st light comes out, and pumping petronas only, if i pump shell i get lesser.
 

SkYwAlKeR

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fstrader said:
for my case, 4g15 carb, rebore and with some cams... 20 bucks about 10.40litres running on 3k rpm gearchanges, i get exactly 98km's b4 1st light comes out, and pumping petronas only, if i pump shell i get lesser.
sifoo fred, means petronas give u more mileage compare to shell??...

i remember last time, everyone was supporting shell... now they gone worse adi??... my car cant touch 10km/litre also lar.... last time can la.... i still using shell unleaded...
 

rollakid

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i can't even use shell, use shell my engine choke and shake and die..

petronas okay, but feel like got knocking only..

now use esso, no prob.. but dunno fc good or not..
 

kelvin_dawson

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My 4g15 ten yrs old d.....thought wana change few weeks ago but havin financial problem so end up full overhaul coz white smoke come out d. Before overhaul my FC is 25cent/km which is quite high and same as turbo car. But fortunately my 4G15 give me a good impression by providing more power compare to other 4G15 and i got no idea where tht power come from. Even my mechanis n frenz who test drive my car said so. Now my car had already come out from the workshop. Sadly i come rev my engine to c how powerful izzit after overhaul coz i need to run the engine for 1000km. Now ony reach 400++ still long way to go. For information this is the spec of my car that i had installed and mayb all this parts that i installed may result in 25cent/km :)

1. 1.8 Super Touring Flywheel
2. 15inch sport rim
3. 4 points front bar Ultra Racing
4. 2 points rear bar Hot BIts
5. HWL adjustable
6. 4-2-1 Rimus extractor
7. whole eksoz system

Before overhaul i got a good handling and power (not to compare to 4G92,93) due to all the modification. After overhaul, haven noe yet coz i haven rev my car to max hehe...

Just that if wana get more power, FC is a must to sacrifice. There's no free lunch in this world rite? where u have to pay for ur food...same as the situation here where u have to pay for more power.
 

ahren

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BUt to do overhaul is quite expensive rite? endup like paying like buying a new engine? i heard overhaul costing about RM1k ++... expensive

and like kyheng said i need to check engine mounting, timing belt, idling timing, clucth and others. How should i talk with the mechanic if he is a chinese? or should i ask him to make a big service for my whole car?

I was thinking like if so much trouble i better return the wira to my cousin dy :( My 25 yrs old 323 Mazda still the most powerful 1 ! >:)
 

DarkAccoon

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if u are having a mazda 323
might as well keep that car instead of re-doing the wira
firstly, the bulid of that car is better than wira (provided the 323 has been taken care properly over the years)
 

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