350z is not an ideal car for track?

[ysl]

2:35 in LEVIN ...??? waalluuu .... wanna meet this guy dee .....

You sounds like don't believe me. His garage is Puchong, can go see him anytime.

 

[luqae]

Ok, I think we've gone OT. We were talking about 350z being ideal for track and you said they aren't as good as track ready cars like Evos and WRXs. I disagreed because neither are track ready and I backed up my statement with the experience of having owned one. I then said that a RWD car would be able to go around corners faster than a 4WD based on the latter's tendency to understeer.

Then you mentioned the GTR being faster than a Porsche at Nurburgring because its 4wd. Again, I disagreed because GTRs run primarily in RWD mode and the ATTESA system transfers power when it detects loss of traction but not in corners. So basically throughout the corners, a GTR runs in RWD mode so again I disagreed with you and I'm only basing this on what I've personally experienced. So to answer your question the GTR is both a RWD and AWD car. It's considered an AWD yet it does not drive like one - not at all.

That's when you turned the discussion towards rallying. As I've mentioned, I've only driven one a couple of times so I expressed my opinion again based on past experience. Coincidently you happen to possess experience in rallying more so than me. But I just don't understand how you drove in a real rally car yet you can't quite explain how the system works? Which rally event was this? To the best of my knowledge, local rally events cater to both two wheel and four wheel driven cars.

And if rally cars had this fancy system whereby it adjusts traction during corner then whats the need for Scandinavian flicks, etc. I'm just curious because like I said, I'm not a rally person. I just happened to have the chance to drive one because I know someone prominent in the rallying scene who has a few rally cars of his own.

This is a forum where different people come together bringing different levels of knowledge and experience. It's really OK for us to agree to disagree. I just want to understand your point of view.

hmm u might be right about a rwd is much faster than an awd in track, but still base on what i seen for me awd is still faster in track than rwd with the right setting and torque distribution awd could be tune to suit a track perfectly. but hey thats my opinion, i hv never tried a high hp rwd car in track before. but still i am attract to rwd car as i think they provide some pure driving sensation.

orait regarding the gtr stuff, i cant really argue as i dont really know about this tecno stuff, i just know about it if i read it, even if i hv the chance to drive a GTR i wont bother about that stuff just how the driving is. btw pimpin just wondering u know a lot about this stuff are u a engineer?

Orait this is the fun part rallying, first i know how the system work but i cant explain like an engineer explain as im not an engineer, what i know is that the computer would sort out for u which tyre hv better traction and such so u will get all the traction when u need it, this system is really useful in snow, thats y u see that in the latter years of wrc if im not mistaken in 2003-2005 cant really recall, those factory team are way ahead of other car, as they are using this new tech that helps handling of the car. and in malaysian rally or all rally around the world they are 2 categories 4wd and 2wd even wrc supporting event jwrc are 2wd cars. for big event im driving a 2wd and small, cheap event sometime i got the chance to drive a 4wd so i hv a few experience.

owh scandanvian flick or pendulum, i dont really need to explain how about u try and search for the old rally video era of carloz,makinnen and mcrae and compare it to newer video era of marcus, loeb hirvonen u see their driving style are different and why is that? because they are assisted by new tech this day with new car scandanivian flick are not practical.

and i respect ur disagreement, as its fun to discuss, i might not hv the experience that u hv and u might not hv the experience that i hv, so its call learning.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

errr.....when we comparing different car was not really quite an apple to apple...

yet if we talk about same car..albeit same horspower and engine character,similiar weight yet different layout RWD versus 4WD i would say RWD have a higher potential to go faster on high grip surface such as smooth tarmac inside circuit...

1)due to RWD have better weight advantage..(center diff+extra axle would cost 50kilos and more to a car compare to RWD layout)
2)due to heavy front 4WD car tends to understeer more than RWD car....and slower laptime
3)due to heavier 4wd,the tyre would wear outs faster than RWD car...


that explain core reason why japanGT car no matter gt300 impreza or gtr35 didn't use their factory 4WD system....

while in rally using RWD car proves less competetive than 4wd car due to loose surface traction....


but don't worry...tuning can help to improve good and reduce bad charcater about both AWD and RWD config.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

errr.....when we comparing different car was not really quite an apple to apple...

yet if we talk about same car..albeit same horspower and engine character,similiar weight yet different layout RWD versus 4WD i would say RWD have a higher potential to go faster on high grip surface such as smooth tarmac inside circuit...

1)due to RWD have better weight advantage..(center diff+extra axle would cost 50kilos and more to a car compare to RWD layout)
2)due to heavy front 4WD car tends to understeer more than RWD car....and slower laptime
3)due to heavier 4wd,the tyre would wear outs faster than RWD car...


that explain core reason why japanGT car no matter gt300 impreza or gtr35 didn't use their factory 4WD system....

while in rally using RWD car proves less competetive than 4wd car due to loose surface traction....


but don't worry...tuning can help to improve good and reduce bad charcater about both AWD and RWD config.

OMG thank God someone who gets it

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:37 PM ----------

hmm u might be right about a rwd is much faster than an awd in track, but still base on what i seen for me awd is still faster in track than rwd with the right setting and torque distribution awd could be tune to suit a track perfectly. but hey thats my opinion, i hv never tried a high hp rwd car in track before. but still i am attract to rwd car as i think they provide some pure driving sensation.

orait regarding the gtr stuff, i cant really argue as i dont really know about this tecno stuff, i just know about it if i read it, even if i hv the chance to drive a GTR i wont bother about that stuff just how the driving is. btw pimpin just wondering u know a lot about this stuff are u a engineer?

Orait this is the fun part rallying, first i know how the system work but i cant explain like an engineer explain as im not an engineer, what i know is that the computer would sort out for u which tyre hv better traction and such so u will get all the traction when u need it, this system is really useful in snow, thats y u see that in the latter years of wrc if im not mistaken in 2003-2005 cant really recall, those factory team are way ahead of other car, as they are using this new tech that helps handling of the car. and in malaysian rally or all rally around the world they are 2 categories 4wd and 2wd even wrc supporting event jwrc are 2wd cars. for big event im driving a 2wd and small, cheap event sometime i got the chance to drive a 4wd so i hv a few experience.

owh scandanvian flick or pendulum, i dont really need to explain how about u try and search for the old rally video era of carloz,makinnen and mcrae and compare it to newer video era of marcus, loeb hirvonen u see their driving style are different and why is that? because they are assisted by new tech this day with new car scandanivian flick are not practical.

and i respect ur disagreement, as its fun to discuss, i might not hv the experience that u hv and u might not hv the experience that i hv, so its call learning.

Appreciate you explaining. :top:

At least despite us agreeing to disagree it shows that there is a certain level of respect and maturity for us to at least explain ourselves and acknowledge the fact that not all of us can think alike. If not, the world would be a pretty easy place to live in

 

[starlife]

sorry bro ..... little mis-understanding here ...... i just respect him n really wanna meet toyota kaki .... n hav a frenz communication no other meaning ....... ok ...? coz i'm a toyota kaki too ...

thanks ... hope u don't mind it ...

 

[BadBoyBen]

Surely will do, but not this coming one, see you next year. But i think i will get other driver to drive my car, like the 5hp runner said, i'm the nut. It will embarrassing the Z33 if i drive it. sad...!

I think you should drive yourself! If you don't drive, then you won't be able to learn more about your car and also your own driving skills. The first time you get onto the track you will get a time that you can use as your reference time then find out how to subsequently improve your times ...

The only method for driving faster is to drive more.

Hope to see you at the track sometime!

 

[ysl]

errr.....when we comparing different car was not really quite an apple to apple...

yet if we talk about same car..albeit same horspower and engine character,similiar weight yet different layout RWD versus 4WD i would say RWD have a higher potential to go faster on high grip surface such as smooth tarmac inside circuit...

1)due to RWD have better weight advantage..(center diff+extra axle would cost 50kilos and more to a car compare to RWD layout)
2)due to heavy front 4WD car tends to understeer more than RWD car....and slower laptime
3)due to heavier 4wd,the tyre would wear outs faster than RWD car...


that explain core reason why japanGT car no matter gt300 impreza or gtr35 didn't use their factory 4WD system....

while in rally using RWD car proves less competetive than 4wd car due to loose surface traction....


but don't worry...tuning can help to improve good and reduce bad charcater about both AWD and RWD config.

Accept your point as a fact, but I not able to understand why... will try to figure out, thanks.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

well...in searching for fastest laptime..physics do play major role no matter we realize or not....

(including driving technique like scandavian flick,left foot braking etc etc)....


so if we can achieve good number in physic,then normally its up to the driver to maximize the car potential....

thats why even with low power car such as lotus exige still can clock fast time albeit with less power...(dont forget with less weight it also achieve similiar level of power to weigh ratio and improve braking,acceleration on par with higher powered supercar)-as well as handling because it doesnt wear out the tyre and brake very fast like heavyweight car so laptime was consistant...

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Accept your point as a fact, but I not able to understand why... will try to figure out, thanks.

Actually, I was curious as well but wasn't sure if he drove it just a few times or he drives your car for you all the time.

well...in searching for fastest laptime..physics do play major role no matter we realize or not....

(including driving technique like scandavian flick,left foot braking etc etc)....


so if we can achieve good number in physic,then normally its up to the driver to maximize the car potential....

thats why even with low power car such as lotus exige still can clock fast time albeit with less power...(dont forget with less weight it also achieve similiar level of power to weigh ratio and improve braking,acceleration on par with higher powered supercar)-as well as handling because it doesnt wear out the tyre and brake very fast like heavyweight car so laptime was consistant...

But Exige is smaller than my golf buggy.

 

[ysl]

I drive most, perhaps i have poor sense in physic.

I try to figure out how RWD faster than AWD in turn, probably i need to borrow AWD from someone to feel it again.

I will be trained in FWD next week practice session, will share with you later.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

I drive most, perhaps i have poor sense in physic.

I try to figure out how RWD faster than AWD in turn, probably i need to borrow AWD from someone to feel it again.

I will be trained in FWD next week practice session, will share with you later.

Sorry I have to ask; why would you train for FWD when you own a RWD car? How long have you had the 350z? I only ask because I've always believed that the only way you can ever be good at something is to do it practice whether its playing the piano or drifting. If you borrow an AWD car, firstly you will surely back off the throttle when you experience understeer or you may not even go around the corner fast enough to actually severely understeer and secondly, would you really want to try it in someone else's car?

I started driving RWD turbos at 18 and my first car was an R33 GTST; a pretty bad idea. And although drag racing was very accessible and cheap in Australia where I was then a student, we always ended up at the illegal races. A few times we were caught, mostly we got away.

But during that time, I learned what having 200+hp atw was like. Basic mods, boost, SAFC, clutch, suspension, rims, etc. If I could go around the corner at 80km/h and I passed by twice a day; perhaps next week I'll try it at 90km/h instead. And on and on it went. And I have crashed of course - one was quite bad and I have watched friends die in accidents. But like riding a bicycle, you have to dust yourself off and get back on again. Firstly, most of what I did while learning to drive was illegal so I accept all the consequences and secondly no one forced me into doing it.

Then I moved on to other cars each one being slightly more powerful than the last; and until today I always have this tendency to try push a little harder than the last time. Only thing is that now I have to push much, much harder to be driving outside my comfort zone and secondly, I've obviously improved from when I was 18.

But unlike you, I don't have a track car but if I did then I would certainly drive it every single chance I got. You have to make the mistakes to learn from them. I'm not saying driver training etc is not important; they're very very important but unless you're the one going round and round the track, you'll never know the true potential of your car and your driving.

 

[ysl]

Sorry I have to ask; why would you train for FWD when you own a RWD car? How long have you had the 350z? I only ask because I've always believed that the only way you can ever be good at something is to do it practice whether its playing the piano or drifting. If you borrow an AWD car, firstly you will surely back off the throttle when you experience understeer or you may not even go around the corner fast enough to actually severely understeer and secondly, would you really want to try it in someone else's car?

I started driving RWD turbos at 18 and my first car was an R33 GTST; a pretty bad idea. And although drag racing was very accessible and cheap in Australia where I was then a student, we always ended up at the illegal races. A few times we were caught, mostly we got away.

But during that time, I learned what having 200+hp atw was like. Basic mods, boost, SAFC, clutch, suspension, rims, etc. If I could go around the corner at 80km/h and I passed by twice a day; perhaps next week I'll try it at 90km/h instead. And on and on it went. And I have crashed of course - one was quite bad and I have watched friends die in accidents. But like riding a bicycle, you have to dust yourself off and get back on again. Firstly, most of what I did while learning to drive was illegal so I accept all the consequences and secondly no one forced me into doing it.

Then I moved on to other cars each one being slightly more powerful than the last; and until today I always have this tendency to try push a little harder than the last time. Only thing is that now I have to push much, much harder to be driving outside my comfort zone and secondly, I've obviously improved from when I was 18.

But unlike you, I don't have a track car but if I did then I would certainly drive it every single chance I got. You have to make the mistakes to learn from them. I'm not saying driver training etc is not important; they're very very important but unless you're the one going round and round the track, you'll never know the true potential of your car and your driving.

Sorry for late reply, low power FWD is part of my sifu training program, no harm learning.

I own Z33 3 years ago in Auto Trans. Mid of last year bought another manual trans Z33 and start to track and mod. Since then, I start to learn a lot of technical thing and track theory from books, however, lack of track experience, because my total track time is still less than 24 hours I think.

 

[luqae]

yup ur rigt pimpin its the different that makes life well life, and btw just wanna share next year wrc they will change to manual gearing (using sequential) and With the absence of an active centre differential, so maybe those scandanivian flick will become popular again. read it http://wrc.com/news/lapworth-new-cars-will-be-just-as-spectacular/?fid=13791

 

[kgnatt]

Hi all,
I'm Kenny of Kegani Autotech. was invited by ysl to join in this topic. I hope to share some information with you guys about my impression on the Z and when it is on track.

the Z certainly has good handling characteristics, being a rear wheel drive car has the advantage of early acceleration, handling feedback is good.
The stock transmission ratio apparently was pretty match for Sepang track, yet, can be further fine tune to trim down lap times. The v6 engine produce good torque and acceleration, important for turn exit, despite the car weight.

I've done a corner weight on the car before, the front : rear ratio was 55:45, and cross weight was at 48+. Further setup can achieve a cross weight of 50/50.
however, it's a mean 1,500kg heavy car.

The Nismo380RS with lightweight cf body parts weight 1,370kg, trust that a fully stripped Z super time attack car can easily achieve 1300kg.
paired up with a target 380ps engine, giving a 3.38 power to weight ratio, that is slightly higher than a Porsche 997 GT3. (referred to MME2010 GT4 list).
by figures, it's seems be a competitive race car.

On track impression, the rear wheel drives really turns the driver on at all time. Having a full lock LSD installed makes the car very 'tail happy', but with some damper adjustment will minimize oversteering at turn exit.
Good straight line speed + 1,500kg car = braking point gotta be early.
With a good big brake kit installed, you should be able to do your braking at 120m.
something like 355mm rotor and a 6pot brake kit will be ideal.

It is a "driver's challenging car" and I must highlight that the engine and exhaust sounds really unforgetable...

 

[ysl]

Hi all,
I'm Kenny of Kegani Autotech. was invited by ysl to join in this topic. I hope to share some information with you guys about my impression on the Z and when it is on track.

the Z certainly has good handling characteristics, being a rear wheel drive car has the advantage of early acceleration, handling feedback is good.
The stock transmission ratio apparently was pretty match for Sepang track, yet, can be further fine tune to trim down lap times. The v6 engine produce good torque and acceleration, important for turn exit, despite the car weight.

I've done a corner weight on the car before, the front : rear ratio was 55:45, and cross weight was at 48+. Further setup can achieve a cross weight of 50/50.
however, it's a mean 1,500kg heavy car.

The Nismo380RS with lightweight cf body parts weight 1,370kg, trust that a fully stripped Z super time attack car can easily achieve 1300kg.
paired up with a target 380ps engine, giving a 3.38 power to weight ratio, that is slightly higher than a Porsche 997 GT3. (referred to MME2010 GT4 list).
by figures, it's seems be a competitive race car.

On track impression, the rear wheel drives really turns the driver on at all time. Having a full lock LSD installed makes the car very 'tail happy', but with some damper adjustment will minimize oversteering at turn exit.
Good straight line speed + 1,500kg car = braking point gotta be early.
With a good big brake kit installed, you should be able to do your braking at 120m.
something like 355mm rotor and a 6pot brake kit will be ideal.

It is a "driver's challenging car" and I must highlight that the engine and exhaust sounds really unforgetable...

Hi Kenny, welcome to the thread; appreciate your opinion.