350z is not an ideal car for track?

[ysl]

I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.



I think the reason why there isn't much talk locally about 350Zs being modified/raced is because from what I observe; generally those who buy 350Zs aren't interested in track racing nor outright power (there are exceptions of course or else you guys wouldn't have your own section on ZTH LOL) but in the US, the 350Z is commonly used as a daily car and on the weekends, they hit the track and some have impressive power too. But I'm sure you already know this as the US forums provide more information than what local forums can hope to provide.

I don't think you are even remotely showing off and I hope I don't come across as doing so either but I have to back-up my explanations or opinions which I can only prove by stating what I've done and experienced.

I'm not into track racing to be honest; but you do realize you sent your instructor out in a car with botak tires So perhaps you could give it another go instead of using that as a benchmark?

Where got botak? Half botak only lah.

Will send him in again, changing to 18" soon, less choice of good tire in 19".

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

Come come come ... Oct 31st join Time To Attack and test yourself how good the Fairlady is.

I will be joining, but I'm not driving Fairlady ... :(

Surely will do, but not this coming one, see you next year. But i think i will get other driver to drive my car, like the 5hp runner said, i'm the nut. It will embarrassing the Z33 if i drive it. sad...!

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Where got botak? Half botak only lah.

Will send him in again, changing to 18" soon, less choice of good tire in 19".

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------



Surely will do, but not this coming one, see you next year. But i think i will get other driver to drive my car, like the 5hp runner said, i'm the nut. It will embarrassing the Z33 if i drive it. sad...!

Ah sorry didn't see the 'half' heheh

 

[luqae]

I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.

thx for the reply [pimpin] yea i always follow rallying around europe as they use car that we not normally use and its inspiring to see how a car that we deem as not suited to some condition can be use in those situation. ur right that a rally car use a shorter wheelbase as they are much more nimble than longer wheelbase car. and yea 350z are not used in wrc but thats where mentality come in place it doesnt mean if a car are not used in a World champiosnhip event it could not be used at all. my point is to prove that 350z are used as a racing vehicle in other part of the world.

and yea i dont own a subaru impreza spec c, or any expensive sports car, but i have been driving in a few rally car, in a real rally before, and yeah i never been in an indy car, but for what ive been reading there some f1 cars and indy car have used awd and it prove awd are faster.

and awd dosent mean it have to be running awd in corner, there is where complicated hi tech gizmo come in place, even wrc car used them in which during corner they adjust the awd system base on traction and stuff technical stuff that i dont really understand, but it doesnt mean the car is 2wd, the car is still a awd. so thats y i disagree with u.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

and yea i dont own a subaru impreza spec c, or any expensive sports car, but i have been driving in a few rally car, in a real rally before, and yeah i never been in an indy car, but for what ive been reading there some f1 cars and indy car have used awd and it prove awd are faster.

and awd dosent mean it have to be running awd in corner, there is where complicated hi tech gizmo come in place, even wrc car used them in which during corner they adjust the awd system base on traction and stuff technical stuff that i dont really understand, but it doesnt mean the car is 2wd, the car is still a awd. so thats y i disagree with u.

Ok, I think we've gone OT. We were talking about 350z being ideal for track and you said they aren't as good as track ready cars like Evos and WRXs. I disagreed because neither are track ready and I backed up my statement with the experience of having owned one. I then said that a RWD car would be able to go around corners faster than a 4WD based on the latter's tendency to understeer.

Then you mentioned the GTR being faster than a Porsche at Nurburgring because its 4wd. Again, I disagreed because GTRs run primarily in RWD mode and the ATTESA system transfers power when it detects loss of traction but not in corners. So basically throughout the corners, a GTR runs in RWD mode so again I disagreed with you and I'm only basing this on what I've personally experienced. So to answer your question the GTR is both a RWD and AWD car. It's considered an AWD yet it does not drive like one - not at all.

That's when you turned the discussion towards rallying. As I've mentioned, I've only driven one a couple of times so I expressed my opinion again based on past experience. Coincidently you happen to possess experience in rallying more so than me. But I just don't understand how you drove in a real rally car yet you can't quite explain how the system works? Which rally event was this? To the best of my knowledge, local rally events cater to both two wheel and four wheel driven cars.

And if rally cars had this fancy system whereby it adjusts traction during corner then whats the need for Scandinavian flicks, etc. I'm just curious because like I said, I'm not a rally person. I just happened to have the chance to drive one because I know someone prominent in the rallying scene who has a few rally cars of his own.

This is a forum where different people come together bringing different levels of knowledge and experience. It's really OK for us to agree to disagree. I just want to understand your point of view.

 

[ysl]

Yes, we welcome everyone come to talk abt racing, performance and handling and etc, particularly involve track racing. However when come comparison, other racing type and cars will come into discussion as well.

I tries EVO before, only 4WD I ever drove. Better feel in corner exit. Better feel give me more confident to accelerate, and I do less job on steering compare to Z33. Of course there are a lot factor to determine the handling, just put them aside first. Z33 is well known oversteer car, perhaps this character can be changed but I still not able to achieve that. So I assume when both EVO and Z33 turn and exit turn at the same speed and same line, Z33 driver might need to react to the car like monkey; both car can achieve the same laptime, but Z33 driver will become very tired after 10 laps.

I have put a lot afford to improve my Z's handling, only 1 thing I haven't done is to put GT wings.

I'm not the good driver (not yet, hehe), but I've passed many subaru and evo in the straight line, simply because I have big horse and overkill brake kit. But very frustrating that I can never able to win them if we continue for 5+ laps. In most cases, when I push harder, I will ended up on the stone or grass.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Yes, we welcome everyone come to talk abt racing, performance and handling and etc, particularly involve track racing. However when come comparison, other racing type and cars will come into discussion as well.

I tries EVO before, only 4WD I ever drove. Better feel in corner exit. Better feel give me more confident to accelerate, and I do less job on steering compare to Z33. Of course there are a lot factor to determine the handling, just put them aside first. Z33 is well known oversteer car, perhaps this character can be changed but I still not able to achieve that. So I assume when both EVO and Z33 turn and exit turn at the same speed and same line, Z33 driver might need to react to the car like monkey; both car can achieve the same laptime, but Z33 driver will become very tired after 10 laps.

I have put a lot afford to improve my Z's handling, only 1 thing I haven't done is to put GT wings.

I'm not the good driver (not yet, hehe), but I've passed many subaru and evo in the straight line, simply because I have big horse and overkill brake kit. But very frustrating that I can never able to win them if we continue for 5+ laps. In most cases, when I push harder, I will ended up on the stone or grass.

Of course you will oversteer, it's a RWD car. All things being equal, a RWD car in the hands of a good driver will have a cornering speed that is faster than a 4WD car driven by the same driver. We're talking about the characteristics of how the cars with different drivetrain setups handle and which are quicker.

Obviously in time your Zed will become quicker since you are serious about modifying it. I don't know you'd need a GT Wing. I use one purely because I hit 300 regularly. Btw, what brake kit are you using? Any plans for more power?

 

[ysl]

Of course you will oversteer, it's a RWD car. All things being equal, a RWD car in the hands of a good driver will have a cornering speed that is faster than a 4WD car driven by the same driver. We're talking about the characteristics of how the cars with different drivetrain setups handle and which are quicker.

Obviously in time your Zed will become quicker since you are serious about modifying it. I don't know you'd need a GT Wing. I use one purely because I hit 300 regularly. Btw, what brake kit are you using? Any plans for more power?

Oh really? RWD able to get out from turn faster? Thanks for the info. You see I learn something new d.

Brembo GT Monobloc, same model as F430 one. No more power, improve the driver first.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Oh really? RWD able to get out from turn faster? Thanks for the info. You see I learn something new d.

Brembo GT Monobloc, same model as F430 one. No more power, improve the driver first.

My friend got the same Brembo GT but not sure if its exactly same as F430 as in design/materials etc. But he got from SG; apparently they are cheaper there but his weren't modified as they were made for his model.

 

[TamanLinkin]

its good to see theres a z owner who loves it and drive it like it should, hehe. its a good car on track if you wanna have fun. if you want to go for time attack, type r is still the best. designed to charge into the corner, unlike z where you need to go in slow, slingshot fast out. if you a pro lol. as for me for now its still good for me as i go to sepang to have fun only hehe.

anyway, when is the next trackday ah? i itching already wanna drive fast ( faster a bit then national speed la hehe )

 

[starlife]

350Z making 2:48 in SIC ...??

heheheheee .......

sorry to heard tat bro .....

my Ae92 hatchback doing da same timing .....

:-)

 

[ysl]

its good to see theres a z owner who loves it and drive it like it should, hehe. its a good car on track if you wanna have fun. if you want to go for time attack, type r is still the best. designed to charge into the corner, unlike z where you need to go in slow, slingshot fast out. if you a pro lol. as for me for now its still good for me as i go to sepang to have fun only hehe.

anyway, when is the next trackday ah? i itching already wanna drive fast ( faster a bit then national speed la hehe )

23rd Oct got 1, Singaporean organizer, if you interested, I book for you. RM550 including transponder, limited seat.

 

[0 200]

350Z making 2:48 in SIC ...??

heheheheee .......

sorry to heard tat bro .....

my Ae92 hatchback doing da same timing .....

:-)

hey, ysl is too humble, I saw his timesheet last july.

 

[ysl]

2:33 in Sepang is a VERY good time and I think already tells everyone whether the car is good on a track or not.

No no no, can't say that, he is 2010 S1K champion team first driver. He did 2:29 in altezza, 2:35 in Levin, perhaps he can do below that in FD2R or EVO.

 

[TamanLinkin]

350Z making 2:48 in SIC ...??

heheheheee .......

sorry to heard tat bro .....

my Ae92 hatchback doing da same timing .....

:-)

so.... congrats? :hmmmm:

---------- Post added at 12:01 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

23rd Oct got 1, Singaporean organizer, if you interested, I book for you. RM550 including transponder, limited seat.

thx but mahal la :P i wait for open trackday.

 

[starlife]

2:35 in LEVIN ...??? waalluuu .... wanna meet this guy dee .....