Review: 2016 FK2R Civic Type-R Turbo

[Tom]

Hmm how can the same 235 width will provide more contact patch if using lower profile? Is it because it becomes more square as the stiffer sidewall presses more of the outside tread?

Yes the increase in stiffness in theory should improve handling but I think you can also go too stiff and end up worse coz the tires are just too stiff to absorb road imperfections and hence skipping and loosing grip instead of absorbing and still gripping. We're still talking about road cars after all, if race cars then different. About 2 years back I watched a video of a Holden HSV if not mistaken where they compare lap times of that car using huge 19' or 20' vs when downgraded using just 1 inch smaller diameter (but same tires and width) and the lap times using smaller rims actually were faster! For me personally I would never go thinner than 10 cm sidewall, 10-11.5 cm sidewall seems ideal to still remain responsive handling yet comfortable enough for daily use to absorb road imperfections.

Yah then when comes time to change tire, settle for cheapo crap don't know from where tires! :stupid:

Yes, that's the theory and less sidewall height = less deformation = suspension work better.

Yes, the old school of thought says taller sidewall = more comfort. So the tyres act as a form of suspension. That was during the ancient days of suspension engineering.

So if engineers are able to reduce or remove the tyre side wall deformation variable upon load, by introducing thinner sidewalls, squarer contact patch, they'd be able to determine loads better and optimize shock, spring types and more, therefore potentially offering greater comfort or handling.

As opposed to replacing factory wheels with bigger aftermarket wheels, where the suspension geometry have been set prior. Would likely guarantee a harsher ride and ruined handling. Which is what we are all used to.

 

[6UE5t]

Yes, that's the theory and less sidewall height = less deformation = suspension work better.

Yes, the old school of thought says taller sidewall = more comfort. So the tyres act as a form of suspension. That was during the ancient days of suspension engineering.

So if engineers are able to reduce or remove the tyre side wall deformation variable upon load, by introducing thinner sidewalls, squarer contact patch, they'd be able to determine loads better and optimize shock, spring types and more, therefore potentially offering greater comfort or handling.

As opposed to replacing factory wheels with bigger aftermarket wheels, where the suspension geometry have been set prior. Would likely guarantee a harsher ride and ruined handling. Which is what we are all used to.

I don't know, I'm still not convinced that such wafer thin tires like in this Civic is really the best. Probably the only way to really find out is to have cars like this tested using 1 inch smaller diameter rims but the same tires and width and see if they go slower or faster just like what they tested with that Holden, and be more comfortable at the same time.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Yeah, sports car standards now minimum 20" tyres.......

Maybe 20" really helps in performance because back then when R35 is just introduced in 2007, almost all of its supercar competitors are still using 19" while R35 already went for 20". Which is probably why R35 had incredible cornering performance despite weighing at 1700kg which is heavier than F430, Gallardo, R8.

Hmm how can the same 235 width will provide more contact patch if using lower profile? Is it because it becomes more square as the stiffer sidewall presses more of the outside tread?

Well, I think the extra contact patch is from the circumference of the whole rim+tyre itself? Let's say a 235/35/19 VS 235/35/18. The 19" will have a larger overall circumference isn't it?

 

[6UE5t]

Maybe 20" really helps in performance because back then when R35 is just introduced in 2007, almost all of its supercar competitors are still using 19" while R35 already went for 20". Which is probably why R35 had incredible cornering performance despite weighing at 1700kg which is heavier than F430, Gallardo, R8.



Well, I think the extra contact patch is from the circumference of the whole rim+tyre itself? Let's say a 235/35/19 VS 235/35/18. The 19" will have a larger overall circumference isn't it?

The R35 amazing cornering and maneuvering capability and traction are mostly due to its' sophisticated AWD system.

Contact patch is at one point in time is the same leh, not the whole circumference of the tire what!

 

[RENESIS VIII]

The R35 amazing cornering and maneuvering capability and traction are mostly due to its' sophisticated AWD system.

Contact patch is at one point in time is the same leh, not the whole circumference of the tire what!

The ATTESA system that started way back in R32 days.

Isn't it like if your overall wheel diameter/circumference (not sure if the word I am using is correct) is larger, the contact point with the ground will also be bigger?

 

[6UE5t]

The ATTESA system that started way back in R32 days.

Isn't it like if your overall wheel diameter/circumference (not sure if the word I am using is correct) is larger, the contact point with the ground will also be bigger?

Well I was not suggesting to use overall smaller diameter coz need to use thicker profile tires hence the overall diameter should remain about the same! So if this Civic is using 235/35/19, then to down grade to 18' use 235/40/18 then the overall diameter is still about the same (it's actually larger by 2mm).

 

[vr2turbo]

Well I was not suggesting to use overall smaller diameter coz need to use thicker profile tires hence the overall diameter should remain about the same! So if this Civic is using 235/35/19, then to down grade to 18' use 235/40/18 then the overall diameter is still about the same (it's actually larger by 2mm).

Yup, agree is not the circumference because if upgrade or down we have to stick to the overall diameter.....

 

[ixeo]

I for one, love the styling. I never really liked the idea of the Civic Type R being so closed to the pedestrian Civics, where all the normal Civis play dress up and look like its big brother. Then again, if its that different, is it still a Civic? Aha.

The design is loud, and it wears it proudly. It is a big boy's toy, and frankly, the provocative design suits it very well, rather being tame like the GTi and the Clio. The Megane looks good, but still in a gentlemen sorta way, not loud and brash like this one.

I guess the most important question is, Honda Malaysia bringing it in?

 

[Shinjite]

Maybe 20" really helps in performance because back then when R35 is just introduced in 2007, almost all of its supercar competitors are still using 19" while R35 already went for 20". Which is probably why R35 had incredible cornering performance despite weighing at 1700kg which is heavier than F430, Gallardo, R8.

Its the AWD system that stun a lot of manufacturers and of course including us people. The 20" wheels do play a role too.

 

[Shinjite]

I for one, love the styling. I never really liked the idea of the Civic Type R being so closed to the pedestrian Civics, where all the normal Civis play dress up and look like its big brother. Then again, if its that different, is it still a Civic? Aha.

The design is loud, and it wears it proudly. It is a big boy's toy, and frankly, the provocative design suits it very well, rather being tame like the GTi and the Clio. The Megane looks good, but still in a gentlemen sorta way, not loud and brash like this one.

I guess the most important question is, Honda Malaysia bringing it in?

Not sure on this but most likely a JDM version of it. So far only the FD2R is legally sold here besides Japan so yeah

 

[Tom]

I don't know, I'm still not convinced that such wafer thin tires like in this Civic is really the best. Probably the only way to really find out is to have cars like this tested using 1 inch smaller diameter rims but the same tires and width and see if they go slower or faster just like what they tested with that Holden, and be more comfortable at the same time.

in this case, i do agree that Honda Europe probably hadn't given the wheel setup enough thought or tyre supplier might have changed during final production.




coincidentally, the Megane RS275 Trophy R also comes with 235/35/19 tyres, although these are super special Michelin Pilot Cup 2s. Michelin tyres are generally meatier than its competitors. The Continental rubbers on the FK2R is just a little too stretched for any performance gain.

This led me to believe what i mentioned about the last minute change in supplier.

Fortunately, it's predecessor, the FD2R's RE070 in 225/40/18 on a 18x7 wheel looks visually right and square.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

Yup, agree is not the circumference because if upgrade or down we have to stick to the overall diameter.....

but if me...having this and going to trackday,

i'll be happy getting another set of tyres and wheels... 17"x9jj with 255 series UHP/semi slick tyre....

smaller overall rotation=massive acceleration and shorter gearing perfect for track....who cares much about actual speedo reading anyway..especially when we have data logger apps on phone that can record everything including onboard vids with telemetry data easily...

 

[6UE5t]

in this case, i do agree that Honda Europe probably hadn't given the wheel setup enough thought or tyre supplier might have changed during final production.




coincidentally, the Megane RS275 Trophy R also comes with 235/35/19 tyres, although these are super special Michelin Pilot Cup 2s. Michelin tyres are generally meatier than its competitors. The Continental rubbers on the FK2R is just a little too stretched for any performance gain.

This led me to believe what i mentioned about the last minute change in supplier.

Fortunately, it's predecessor, the FD2R's RE070 in 225/40/18 on a 18x7 wheel looks visually right and square.

Maybe the FK2R rims width are 8.5j while the RS275 are 8j?

Maybe Honda and Renault want these cars to be able to use the best performance tires out there so they can outrun each other, and therefore they just opt for the 19'. Coz CSC6 and PSC2 are only available 19' up.

 

[vr2turbo]

but if me...having this and going to trackday,

i'll be happy getting another set of tyres and wheels... 17"x9jj with 255 series UHP/semi slick tyre....

smaller overall rotation=massive acceleration and shorter gearing perfect for track....who cares much about actual speedo reading anyway..especially when we have data logger apps on phone that can record everything including onboard vids with telemetry data easily...

Track then different loh.....

 

[vr2turbo]

Maybe the FK2R rims width are 8.5j while the RS275 are 8j?

Maybe Honda and Renault want these cars to be able to use the best performance tires out there so they can outrun each other, and therefore they just opt for the 19'. Coz CSC6 and PSC2 are only available 19' up.

Bingo.....lol

 

[Shinjite]

Maybe the FK2R rims width are 8.5j while the RS275 are 8j?

Maybe Honda and Renault want these cars to be able to use the best performance tires out there so they can outrun each other, and therefore they just opt for the 19'. Coz CSC6 and PSC2 are only available 19' up.

Yup exactly but the tires sadly it not a direct competition. The Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 will definitely have more grip than the CSC6. The Megane still has the advantage in the track in pure stock form.

 

[6UE5t]

Yup exactly but the tires sadly it not a direct competition. The Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 will definitely have more grip than the CSC6. The Megane still has the advantage in the track in pure stock form.

Coz the RS275 is also more track focused. The PSC2 also only has 80 tread wear so you can imagine how fast they will be finished but it matches the purpose of the car as most likely the owners would not drive this car as a daily driver. The CSC6 on the other hand still has 240 tread wear which matches the purpose of the Civic as a daily driven sports hatch back.

 

[Shinjite]

Coz the RS275 is also more track focused. The PSC2 also only has 80 tread wear so you can imagine how fast they will be finished but it matches the purpose of the car as most likely the owners would not drive this car as a daily driver. The CSC6 on the other hand still has 240 tread wear which matches the purpose of the Civic as a daily driven sports hatch back.

A lot of them reviewers are comparing those two head to head, of course the Renault will still end up on top due to the tyres alone.

 

[vr2turbo]

Coz the RS275 is also more track focused. The PSC2 also only has 80 tread wear so you can imagine how fast they will be finished but it matches the purpose of the car as most likely the owners would not drive this car as a daily driver. The CSC6 on the other hand still has 240 tread wear which matches the purpose of the Civic as a daily driven sports hatch back.

Unless like some have two sets of rims and tyres .....lol

 

[Tom]

Coz the RS275 is also more track focused. The PSC2 also only has 80 tread wear so you can imagine how fast they will be finished but it matches the purpose of the car as most likely the owners would not drive this car as a daily driver. The CSC6 on the other hand still has 240 tread wear which matches the purpose of the Civic as a daily driven sports hatch back.

The Pilot Sport Cup 2 actually has a higher treadwear of 180 whereas the Pilot Cup 1 is at motorsport territory 80

At TIMETOATTACK we classify the Cup 1 as Semi Slicks and Cup 2 as Road Tyre