NGV for high performance vehicle??

[zac]

Dear all,

NGV are commonly seen only in original car, but can it be installed to modified car as well? such as turbocharged or hi-compression NA engine? is there any side effect or changes in parts & price? NGV sounded very attractive but need to sort out a few issue before i can go further..

 

[super fei lo]

in the states,
CNG even installed in mustangs,and we are talkin about 4++ ponies....
try to google it,green mustang

 

[WajaRS]

hmm..turbo charged ngv has yet to see one but I've heard some volvo's with soft turbo has installed..you try google and search, last time got one kancil turbo track car running on ngv..ddat was decades back..wonder does this car still exist..So far mine is still running fine for nearly 2 years..I'm using mivec..so far so good..it depends on what kit you choose to suite your ride and also reputable installers and tuners..

 

[zac]

hmm..turbo charged ngv has yet to see one but I've heard some volvo's with soft turbo has installed..you try google and search, last time got one kancil turbo track car running on ngv..ddat was decades back..wonder does this car still exist..So far mine is still running fine for nearly 2 years..I'm using mivec..so far so good..it depends on what kit you choose to suite your ride and also reputable installers and tuners..

Care to share where you install and how much for that? i m using mivec as well, but wira

 

[jeffbboyz]

i used to work in NGV conversion workshop...and i have a colleague who install NGV in a Eterna twin-turbo converted Proton Perdana.....it seems like no problem and working just fine....he is using Landi-Renzo kit if not mistaken....

 

[jeffbboyz]

Care to share where you install and how much for that? i m using mivec as well, but wira

i dont think Mivec should be a problem to convert....just that u will feel lost of power when using NGV n petrol....NGV works normal whether its turbo or NA.....the most significant differences is the power...thats all....

and the wear n tear of engine components will be higher compare to using petrol due to the heat and slight higher compression.....

 

[GoldenHawk]

How about using NGV on high compression engines? Any experiences from anyone?

 

[tony5050]

hi guys,

my business partner too is running a NGV workshop in Shah Alam. They import their own kit and cylinder under their own licensing, i.e. the SIRIM and DOSH cert for cylinder.
I had 4 of my company car installed by them, 08 Vios, 1st BMW mini Cooper, and 2 perdana. All went well for the past 6 months.

Generally, Natural Gas works better under higher compression N/A engine. In fact, a study shows the Natural Gas works the best under the 16:1 comp ratio.
When people says the power loss in our normal petrol engine when running on it, its all due to the relatively low comp ratio for Natural Gas combustion.

This is a sample of how a typical n/a engine would work under gas. Dynoed the car in Links sunway though. However, the judgement of the graph itself cant justify the normal driving condition as it was carried out under 3rd gear and FULL throttle. generally, we should have much better curve in part throttle.

 

[zac]

Just to double check...

If my car has equipped with emanage, do i need to retune it to match with NGV or everything can remain no change?

 

[WajaRS]

Did mine in PJ area..Cost me around RM7K plus for sequential kit..was running on Injection kit before this but I felt that its not suitable as my car is running on coil packs and requires tunning once in awhile..Power has been less using the injection kit..After I switch to sequential kit, everything goes well and was problem free..I enjoyed my ride very much now..if interested, I can show you my ride

 

[tony5050]

hi guys,

Anyone interested in the Sequential kit, to any 4 cylinder cars, i had an offer from my fren's place in Shah Alam for RM6000 with 75litre type I cylinder.
Also, anyone who can recommend any of his frens or relatives gets RM200 commision. Do drop me PM if you have any lead so i can divert you to my fren in Shah Alam. Many thanks.

Zac,

From what i know how the seuqntial system works, i dont think it will have any effect. It will run like normal. Thanks

 

[jeffbboyz]

Just to double check...

If my car has equipped with emanage, do i need to retune it to match with NGV or everything can remain no change?

no need...if ur car is fuel injection...must install the NGV sequential kit...mixer is only for carb engine.....

no need tune ur emanage n everything remain same...as sequential kit have their own ECU to tune the gas rich or lean...and the ignition timing.....tuning part as something like tuning emanage too on the laptop.....

 

[DRiftAGster]

not very high performance but definitely one of a kind --

 

[jeffbboyz]

there are still lack of expertise in installing NGV in european and continental cars....as there is experiences that the installer burn the whole ECU of the vehicle....

 

[DRiftAGster]

well, there are many "half-skilled" NGV installer in the market - even though they might claim to be very experienced. Japanese/Korean make or European/Continental make doesn't make any difference. It call comes down to the experience of the installer.

the best testimony for a shop/installer would be the cars that they have installed and how these cars are running.

after observing so many NGVs on the road for so long, this CNG powered Mini Cooper is definitely 1 of a kind.

the owner told me the cars is fitted with a sequential system, the mileage is only RM 0.06 per km, runs extremely smooth and powerful, power loss is almost negligible. i can see from the engine bay the installation work are also neatly done - especially on this compact and tight engine bay.

 

[Vlioxo]

care to elaborate on the place to pump in the NGV ? cos i see some did some nice work planting the injection nozzle right beside the hole where you pump in your fuel, That mean if u pump petrol or NGV u need to open up the fuel cover to pump just like pumping normal petrol, and some you need to open up your bonnet to fuel it. Which one is better ?

 

[jeffbboyz]

from wat i learn when i was working in NGV installation workshop....that is a NO NO when installing the NGV nozzle next to ur pump fuel area....this is becoz of the pressure build up and the danger when refuelling....

that is why most NGV nozzle is place at the front of the engine bay...if the pressure build up is over the limit...the tank is behind the trunk....and when it exploded....that distance can save ur life....this is all becoz of safety purposes....

if it is next to the pump fuel area and if it exploded....its a bye bye to urself....normally the main cause of explosion is different tank is used....most case that happened in malaysia was becoz of using oxygen tank or LPG tank....where these tanks cannot support the pressure of more than 300 psi....

just my 2 cent...correct me if im wrong....

 

[tony5050]

vlioxo and jeff,

to many Malaysian NGV users, placing the filling valve in front or at the same place with the petrol tank cap, is more on the PUSPAKOM and JPJ approval issue. They do have certain specifications for the installer to follow when it comes to different type and model of vehicles.

Placing the filling valve at the back, i.e. same position with the petrol tank cap is perfectly fine, leave aside the wrong cylinder issue. This practice is a norm for many KLIA limos and in other countries in Europe.

 

[Vlioxo]

Yeah, i see that while putting the pump in nozzle at that particular area it looks neater, not to mention then ease when fueling without having to open the big piece of bonnet everytime you fuel.

But if it is going to blow up and blow me into pieces i think i can use the strength each time to open up the bonnet and refuel.

 

[tony5050]

vlioxo,

Then the issue is not about fixing the filling valve at the correct place, it should be the issue of choosing the suitable or correct cylinder. :)