Why are second hand cars in Malaysia so expensive?

[[H] [K] [S]]

For sure there is a possibility. However surely the opposition has more important things in their mind. They have their own priority. You have to look at the big picture. IMHO

 

[AD_EG]

yup u r are right bro... it will take time. it wont be an overnight change..and if the citizens make enough noise about this, a change might happen right? there is still some hope rather than no chance at all of it ever happening.

yes there is ALOT of other important matters that need to be looked into...and when things get ironed out..the matter of importat tax/AP etc might be looked into as well..

 

[Temujin]

and you know this for sure, because?

we are not arguing bro, its merely a discussion. and discussions can bring awareness.

we all know for a fact how the current G is protecting its baby proton. so if opposition takes over, im pretty sure there is a POSSIBILITY they might agree with the citizens of malaysia that we need better quality cars while paying the same price as a proton... where else if the current G stays in power....FOR SURE this will not even be considered.

So if the opposition takes over, won't that make them the next G? Proton will still be part of the G bro, hence the protection mechanism will still be in place.

There's no end to this even if the G is changed, that is my view. But there will always people saying otherwise which ever way I or anybody else views it, therefore arguing on my sentence gets us no where.

The point in question is why the price of second hand cars here are expensive; for the thread starter, the answer is only correct to those who believe in it.. be it due to AP, G or even 'rarity' whichever u want to define it.

Those adamant that the G is to blame, go ahead and vote for the other party to become the next G. I believe there is more to it then just changing the G in reducing the price of cars.

Cheers.

 

[AD_EG]

i see what you mean bro..but saying that if the opposition takes over and be the next G, and they will do the exact same thing and protect proton based on assumption isnt very right bro.

my point of view is, the level of corruption in our current G is absurd. and the whole country knows how low quality proton is and how much effort is being put into making it a better or safer car. I strongly belive its still being "protected" cause the current G basically doesnt give a rats a$$ whether we suffer or not with high priced protons and low quality build cause they are making money with the proton cause thats all some ppl can afford, and they are making money on imports cause some ppl work so much more harder just to get a better quality car, or some simply can just afford it. either way the G is happy.

so, i just think changing the current G to a new one, they might actually listen and find a solution to either force proton to build better quality cars for the same price....or help reduce import tax, or figure a way to basically help the country on this... since i know there is NO HOPE at all for this to happen with the current G...

everybody has their own view..u r right..i really dont mean to insult/offend any1. this is just my view. sorry if i have offended anybody.

peace

 

[[H] [K] [S]]

Chillax guys. Back to topic then...

 

[ddv_nk12]

IMHO, even if/when the opposition takes over the G, the prices of cars won't be much affected. I'm sure the opposition will have other things to worry about especially after taking over for the first time.

And having said that, nothing will guarantee that they will still be in power in the next general election. So, thinking about that, these opposition politicians will want to fill their own pockets as much as possible, not knowing their fate in the next GE.

For us, we can just sit, wait and hope for some changes. Or start making noise about it. We, Malaysians are generally too "quiet", just follow and do everything that is said to do. And even if there a small number of people who fight against it, the number is not significant enough to make a difference.

Just hope for the best, i guess is our only choice.

 

[ixeo]

How do you define rare? for me to define 'rare' it is more or less like scarcity, demand higher than supply.

Talking about Neo R3 Racing Lotus, the supply is small, and the demand is also small. How many people in the world demands for Neo R3 Racing Lotus? Heck, let me ask again, how many people even KNOW about Neo R3 Racing Lotus?

As oppose to R32 Skyline, the demand is high around the world, not just Malaysia, but supply is lower than demand for the car. that, my friend, how we should define rare.

+ if you define rare by the number of production, I'll build my own car and claim its a rare item. Can I? no. because is there demand for the car i created? no.

first off i would like to set the tone of my response. I do not mean to be hostile, and I apologize beforehand if my message would appear that way, as we are just here to state our own views.

Unless you have numbers to back the fact of R32 demand > supply, your argument does not hold water as I have already shown links of suppliers with stock of R32 GTR going for USD$7000 and up, with most averaging about USD$9000. That's equivalent of ~MYR$27000. How is that rare? Stocks are readily available parked in a warehouse somewhere begging for you to buy them. Try and find ready stock for the NEO R3 Racing Lotus!

I have defined RARE 3 times in this thread.
A car is either rare because it is limited production, e.g. NEO R3 Racing Lotus, GTR32 N1 etc.
-OR-
Rare in Malaysia because not many here, but that does not make it a rare car!

BNR32 is dime a dozen. Limited runs like the N1 series then yes, its a different story, similar to a NEO R3 Racing Lotus. To answer the original question, second hand cars are expensive because the purchase price is expensive, or its really a rare limited production unit. and all that is due to the APs.

Only those 'in the know' and appreciate the rarity of these cars will actually see the point of these old cars with such high prices. As pointed out by z34, demand plays an important part as well.

If u can find an original Nismo or N1 BNR32 kept in pristine condition in Japan, would u think the seller would give u a so-called politically correct low price for it? U may think his actual price is exhorbitant as the car is old and being the most produced model but would the seller care? There's always some other buyer who is a collector and appreciates these old cars for what they are and willing to pay the high price.

Not to be arrogant, but this argument is pointless. AP or not, highly sought after rare cars do demand high prices. If u can't afford it, walk away and get something that is affordable to u.

The prices of cars ain't gonna go down if u vote the opposition, let alone argue in an online forum.

Cheers.

Nobody is arguing, are you? Without AP, BNR32 is cheap as chips.

Since you say it takes one to appreciate rarity, tell me, what's so rare about a standard BNR32? Actually we both agree on the same point really, demand plays an important role, so assuming demand of BNR32 is more than supply of BNR32 in Malaysia, then yes it demands a high price. HOWEVER, supply for BNR32 in Malaysia is rare due to... ding ding ding.. the mighty AP!

N1 BNR32 is rare, bog standard BNR32 is not. What's your point? I found lots of BNR32 for cheap, averaging USD$9000. But we can't bring it in Malaysia due to AP, unless its for track and show duties.

Highly sought after rare cars do demand high prices, CORRECT.

But a BNR32 is not a highly sought after rare car -- stocks are readily available for export from Japan, and it is by no means rare, but it demands high prices simply because of the AP. Thrash the AP and the BNR32 would be so common, MYR$27000 + 100% tax = MYR$54000

For the ease of discussion, I shall summarize my points, feel free for rebuttals based on the following:

1. Second hand cars are expensive in Malaysia due to APs, as we are unable to import cars even if we pay the tax. e.g. UK RX-8 ~RM25,000 + 100% tax = RM50,000
2. Owners/Sellers are selling it at a premium because of point 1 -- you can't import one yourself and they try to position their cars as "Rare Cars in Malaysia" although the car is not rare at all, for example a standard BNR32, RX-7 etc.
3. The definition of RARE in the context of THIS discussion can either be (a) the car itself is limited production OR (b) the car is uncommon in Malaysia e.g. BNR32, Holden Monaro etc.
4. Some second hand cars are indeed rare limited production units and rare in Malaysia, one recent example is the Lamborghini LP 550-2 Balboni, 250 units only.

that's it!

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

Regarding the points about Governments & oppositions. I think its a moot point to debate it here. Go out and vote when the time comes and make it count.

No point discussing here because either G or opposition, we won't know how it will affect APs and the auto industry anyway, unless one of you guys is a high ranking member of the G or the opposition. Better to keep ZTH clear of anything political.

 

[z34]

again, you stressed on number of production on how to define rare. and, can you provide that the Neo R3 Lotus Racing is high in demand but low in supply? Last I heard they only manage to sell half of the number produced?

I tell you what, for the price of RM115k (the price of the Neo R3 Lotus Racing; which you claim to be so rare), many of people will opt for BNR32. even stock standard BNR32.

and, comparing 25 units-produced Neo R3 Lotus Racing and over 300,000 units-produced C10 skyline, many of people here will take the C10 Skyline over Neo r3 Lotus Racing any day of the week.

My point is, you can't determine of how rare a car is simply by the number of production.

It leans towards how people value the car. Most of us value Skyline more than a proton. This is because they have reached legendary-status with lots of races win. Their name and quality is proven. Proton also wins races. but not as much as Skyline.

 

[ixeo]

again, you stressed on number of production on how to define rare. and, can you provide that the Neo R3 Lotus Racing is high in demand but low in supply? Last I heard they only manage to sell half of the number produced?

I tell you what, for the price of RM115k (the price of the Neo R3 Lotus Racing; which you claim to be so rare), many of people will opt for BNR32. even stock standard BNR32.

and, comparing 25 units-produced Neo R3 Lotus Racing and over 300,000 units-produced C10 skyline, many of people here will take the C10 Skyline over Neo r3 Lotus Racing any day of the week.

My point is, you can't determine of how rare a car is simply by the number of production.

It leans towards how people value the car. Most of us value Skyline more than a proton. This is because they have reached legendary-status with lots of races win. Their name and quality is proven. Proton also wins races. but not as much as Skyline.

unless the English language have changed. I disagree with you.

rare/re(ə)r/
Adjective:
(of an event, situation, or condition) Not occurring very often.
(of meat, esp. beef) Lightly cooked, so that the inside is still red.
Synonyms:
uncommon - unusual - scarce - infrequent - sparse

the Neo R3 Lotus Racing IS more rare than the BNR32, that is an undeniable FACT.

what you are describing is desirability which may or may not be rare. being rare doesn't make it desirable. and being desirable doesn't necessary means its rare.

I've already covered the exact same thing you said earlier

Rare simply means not occurring very often, it can be certainly defined by numbers.

250 M-Spec Nur were made. Only 25 Satria NEO CPS R3 Lotus Racing were made. So which is more rare? Which is more desirable, that's a different story altogether, not to mix them up.

quit going around in circles. seriously. what are YOU saying. is it rare, or is it desirable. stick to your story man.

 

[Temujin]

Buying an old car such as the BNR32 and FD3S is never a rational thing to do. That is why only 'those in the know' and is a true enthusiast can appreciate the car as they are, the history behind them and the price they come with.

For those who churn out data on rationality, obviously not the type that would appreciate such cars. Regardless of being cheap as chips in other countries, try living in the real world and having real childhood dreams of owning the car which had resided on a poster in ur childhood bedroom.

Talk of the BNR32 not being rare as it is the most produced GT-R but with irrationally high price in Malaysia, how about the old VW Beetle that is made in millions but yet can sold much higher then a used Proton Satria which is in ur definition of 'rarer' as it is made in much smaller numbers and of course way newer than the said old Beetle.

It's all about being an enthusiast.

As I said earlier, if u can't fathom the prices, just walk away as the car is not for u.

Cheers.

 

[Izso]

Ok enough guys.

- One fella is talking about the definition of 'rare'
- Another fella is talking about the emotional value of 'rare' and how it's defined in that aspect
- The last fella is talking about the monetary value of 'rare' and if you can't afford it look away.

In my opinion all three fellas have their points and I agree with all in different aspects of the argument.

Here's my opinion : The market controls the value of the car. In Thailand Altis' are taxis. In M'sia they are the next best mass produced 'new' Toyota your money can buy next to the Camry. Same goes for 2nd hand cars, the higher the demand, the higher the price. And it doesn't help that the starting price due to taxes and what not is already high. Having said that though Alfa Romeos would then be a pretty damn good buy!

 

[Ejal s15]

becoz of proton..
i hope proton will die one day..

 

[ixeo]

Ok enough guys.

- One fella is talking about the definition of 'rare'
- Another fella is talking about the emotional value of 'rare' and how it's defined in that aspect
- The last fella is talking about the monetary value of 'rare' and if you can't afford it look away.

In my opinion all three fellas have their points and I agree with all in different aspects of the argument.

Here's my opinion : The market controls the value of the car. In Thailand Altis' are taxis. In M'sia they are the next best mass produced 'new' Toyota your money can buy next to the Camry. Same goes for 2nd hand cars, the higher the demand, the higher the price. And it doesn't help that the starting price due to taxes and what not is already high. Having said that though Alfa Romeos would then be a pretty damn good buy!

exactly!

oh well. abolish AP, and then the real globalization of Proton will begin. they either brush up to be a real automotive player or they can just prove the bashers right and die like the rubbish they are.

 

[loose_end]

exactly!

oh well. abolish AP, and then the real globalization of Proton will begin. they either brush up to be a real automotive player or they can just prove the bashers right and die like the rubbish they are.

And it will never happen man..

 

[teo1957]

oh well. abolish AP, and then the real globalization of Proton will begin. they either brush up to be a real automotive player or they can just prove the bashers right and die like the rubbish they are.

Well, although a lot among us wish Proton to be killed to death, it does not simply mean shutting down the Proton plants and let loose thousands of Proton workers demonstrating on the street.

It means shutting down Proton vendors also and I think I've mentioned this before somewhere: Teck See, APM, Hicom, Autoliv Hirotako, Tracoma, UMW, PATCO... that's tens of thousands of Proton vendor workers plus hundreds of thousands of their family members losing their source of living.

It is going to be a catastrophic disaster economically, socially and politically to any parties willing to do it. A lose lose situation.

IMHO Proton is somewhat similar to Korea carmakers in that they've failed to come up with exciting models. I look at a Hyundai Coupe and it's a hit or miss design until now. I look at Kia Forte Koup and it looks good but the puny engine won't be able to carry the model out of the sentiment against Korea cars.

Luckily for Korea manufacturers, their people are virtually pointed with guns from the North so there's a sense of togetherness still. Take out the threat from the North and you'll have Malaysia where togetherness does not exist.

 

[ixeo]

Well, although a lot among us wish Proton to be killed to death, it does not simply mean shutting down the Proton plants and let loose thousands of Proton workers demonstrating on the street.

It means shutting down Proton vendors also and I think I've mentioned this before somewhere: Teck See, APM, Hicom, Autoliv Hirotako, Tracoma, UMW, PATCO... that's tens of thousands of Proton vendor workers plus hundreds of thousands of their family members losing their source of living.

It is going to be a catastrophic disaster economically, socially and politically to any parties willing to do it. A lose lose situation.

IMHO Proton is somewhat similar to Korea carmakers in that they've failed to come up with exciting models. I look at a Hyundai Coupe and it's a hit or miss design until now. I look at Kia Forte Koup and it looks good but the puny engine won't be able to carry the model out of the sentiment against Korea cars.

Luckily for Korea manufacturers, their people are virtually pointed with guns from the North so there's a sense of togetherness still. Take out the threat from the North and you'll have Malaysia where togetherness does not exist.

I think you misunderstood me. I don't wish for Proton to be killed. By removing the protection mechanism such as AP (and profiteering that comes with it). Guns will be pointed at Proton to either improve or perish. Similar to the pressure on South Korea. Proton is too comfortable as it is because its protected, and when one is too comfortable, they tend to be lazy and will never improve enough to be competitive.. and they will be just a "me-too" player.

If they don't make it they deserve to die.

Anyway that's deviating from the topic on why second hand cars are expensive.

 

[EvolutionZ]

its getting cheaper and cheaper from what i notice..now u can own a decent sedan car for merely rm5k...of cos more than 10 years old but in good working condition....

 

[teo1957]

its getting cheaper and cheaper from what i notice..now u can own a decent sedan car for merely rm5k...of cos more than 10 years old but in good working condition....

Year 1999 imported sedan (Korean) for RM6,500. Cheap.

http://www.mudah.my/Kia+Sephia-12244998.htm

---------- Post added 12-22-2011 at 12:06 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was 12-21-2011 at 11:59 PM ----------

I think you misunderstood me. I don't wish for Proton to be killed. By removing the protection mechanism such as AP (and profiteering that comes with it). Guns will be pointed at Proton to either improve or perish. Similar to the pressure on South Korea. Proton is too comfortable as it is because its protected, and when one is too comfortable, they tend to be lazy and will never improve enough to be competitive.. and they will be just a "me-too" player.

If they don't make it they deserve to die.

Anyway that's deviating from the topic on why second hand cars are expensive.

Probably if we were looking for a way out, it'll be by way of a very gradual and very slow death where all the workers can ease their way out and find opportunities elsewhere.

And after the death, many will look at all the former buildings of automotive manufacturing plants in Shah Alam and wonder "what could have been?".

 

[csl]

cheap car price will lead to more cars on the road, raise of national fuel demand and more money flow out from the country.

more car on the road:
- Worst traffic jam.
- Parking place become less.
- Increase of accident rate indirectly cause of car insurance price raise.
- More pollution, especially those who not qualify to own a car afford to buy a car.
- Further impact on public transport system.
- New car loan will forced to be at BLR or more (used to be 7% in 1996 and 10% in 1998-1999)
- and plenty more.

Raise of fuel demand:
- Fuel price will be raise. Current mid-low income car owners will suffer 1st.
- Tax on fuel will be implement in a short future.
- Indirectly cause inflation.
- Indirectly increase crime rate.
- and many more.

More money flow out from the country:
- Drop of RM will lead to inflation, including car price raise.
- Indirectly effect local economy's eco system. Short term economy fluctuation will cause long term effect on personnel life and some industries.
- unpredictable chain effects, including unstable political condition.

Many may under estimate the impact of butterfly effect. Don't say remove tax or AP, even discount 15% tax, it will straight away bring up the pressure and normally when you feel it, it is always too late.

Want a car, work harder for it. Not saying that only save money for down payment, but more to establish your own selves to be able to own a car in reality. Big chunk of the pie chart showing that people still cannot afford a decent set of tires. When talk about environmental and safety, it is just like blowing water during TT. Please don't say car price drop and people will have extra money to maintain their car. 999 out of 1000 will change to a more expensive car or buying more car accessories in stead of use a better set of brake pads. Brand new imports will still remain with halfcut donuts. Many parents will buy cars for their children to go to school and school sport field + road side outside the fence will eventually become car park. This is the reality in Malaysia. You can bring all good example from overseas or even proven recipe from somewhere else but normally sht back to the square when wake up next morning. Just like why those recycle rubbish bin set barely works after more than 2 decades of implementation. If Madam Wong wanna add something to the Truely Malaysia tourism advertisement, she can consider this scenario. If JPJ and Puspakom launch operation at each highway entry during festival holidays, I'm sure toll cumpanies will complaint a lot.