4G92 mivec & 4G93 1.8 different

[softmuffin]

hi there,

Just wonder this two engine. one is 1.6 mivec and another one is 1.8
which one is more powerful in term of speed.

prons and cons?

 

[kob3bryant]

hey muffin;
ur twin cam can get near with them already,still wan to upgrade ah?

 

[gsrTurbo9166]

hi bro softmuffin

if compare to hp mivec 1.6 got 170hp while 1.8 dohc got around 144hp
for pickup 1.6 mivec will better
for top speed both r more or less the same

 

[lekalo]

uuu.. yes ah? I thot the 4G92 MIVEC will have better top speed as it can rev higher & longer?
And that'd depend on the respective gearbox ratios right?

 

[deacon]

Mivec 1.6 doesn't put out 170bhp. That is just a statistic Mitsu used to sell their car, it only puts out 170bhp from using race gas (higher octane).

4g93 does not put out 144bhp, you would only be so lucky if you got that much.

This comes from a guy who has a Mivec 1.8.

 

[gsrTurbo9166]

Mivec 1.6 doesn't put out 170bhp. That is just a statistic Mitsu used to sell their car, it only puts out 170bhp from using race gas (higher octane).

4g93 does not put out 144bhp, you would only be so lucky if you got that much.

This comes from a guy who has a Mivec 1.8.

yo bro
wat i wrote there r all from mitsubishi spec and from proton spec
definitely on wheel power is lower compare to this

 

[softmuffin]

kob3 - hey how life? just wanna noe only coz if compare cc sure 1.8 but i hear lot's of ppl say mivec is more powerful then 1.8

maybe is all up to the user. if the user love to do high rav then mivec lol else 1.8

 

[deacon]

yo bro
wat i wrote there r all from mitsubishi spec and from proton spec
definitely on wheel power is lower compare to this

Your information is still incorrect.

Mitsu tested their 4g92 Mivec it was tested with race gas. IN REALITY it does 135 at the wheel which works out to 155bhp at the crank.

Proton's 4g93 GTI engine (Which i own) does not give out 144 stock. At best 138 at the crank. Some dyno days will show you the real performance of these cars. Use 115% to calculate back the difference you will be surprised.

Manufacturer claims vary. A stock Mivec i am almost sure will not produce what Mitsu says.

When measuring at the wheels there is almost a 15% drivetrain loss.

 

[aja]

Your information is still incorrect.

Mitsu tested their 4g92 Mivec it was tested with race gas. IN REALITY it does 135 at the wheel which works out to 155bhp at the crank.

Proton's 4g93 GTI engine (Which i own) does not give out 144 stock. At best 138 at the crank. Some dyno days will show you the real performance of these cars. Use 115% to calculate back the difference you will be surprised.

Manufacturer claims vary. A stock Mivec i am almost sure will not produce what Mitsu says.

When measuring at the wheels there is almost a 15% drivetrain loss.

Mivec 1st Gen was too old already. That y the dyno output not that really interest.

FYI, Mivec 2nd Gen give a better torque/whp as compared to 1st Gen.

Among 4g92 Mivec 1st gen, 2nd gen & 4G93, 4G92 Mivec 2nd Gen would give better power output and would outrun both 4G93 & Mivec 1st Gen. (tested with my stock Mivec CK before)

Stock dyno graph for Mivec 2nd Gen....that would be around 180-185bhp at engine (as stated by factory). That is around 15%-20% loss due to stock transmission etc.

Meaning to say, sometimes what quoted by the kilang are right also.

The main reason why Mivec 1st Gen can't really perform on dyno cause it's a more than 10 years engine & technology already, whereas the Mivec 2nd Gen is a bit newer.

 

[softmuffin]

good to know everyone
so we all know wat 4G92 mivec gen 2 is more powerful then 1.8 4G93
1.6 kill 1.8

now i wonder why ppl still go for 1.8 4G93 since 4G92 mivec is more powerful
of coz 4G93 cost more but 1.8 need paid roadtax higher then 1.6

 

[aja]

good to know everyone
so we all know wat 4G92 mivec gen 2 is more powerful then 1.8 4G93
1.6 kill 1.8

now i wonder why ppl still go for 1.8 4G93 since 4G92 mivec is more powerful
of coz 4G93 cost more but 1.8 need paid roadtax higher then 1.6

Setbacks :

1. Limited & pricy halfcut
2. Tranverse engine

 

[deacon]

4 types of Mivec 1.6 engines.

Silver, black, black reverse and mivec MD.

By your dyno sheets and using the CORRECT drive train loss scheme of 15% (Or less) for front wheel drive those Mivec engines still produce under the the factory quoted figure. Drive train loss for a front wheel drive does not exceed 15% otherwise you got stuck with a shitty car like a Nissan Sentra Spec V (USDM Version lost 25% at the wheels - documented by Sport Compact Car magazine).

Aside from that i am unsure of the mods i didn't witness those cars on the dyno and i am still skeptical as to whether they are able to produce that much power. An exhaust mod to 2.3 or 2.5 inches (In diameter) can change the output of the car. Where as the stock exhaust was around 2 inches. (Incidentally i do not consider a car with an exhaust mod stock, even if it was to free 1 cm of space)

Instead of doing a 3rd run on a dyno try a 4th gear run. Its the closest to the crank rotation. 3rd gear measures at the wheels. 4th measures at the crank - this of course is based on my experience spent with my own car and other dyno shoot outs. Or you can always go to MATSPEED for an engine dyno.

You can also check back my findings in one tell tale article on asia temple of vtec. A Cyborg ZR vs an EG6. Despite having less power and more weight the EG6 won in both drag 1/4 mile and race course. The conclusion was that the Cyborg even when it was brand new never had that much power.

Mitsubishi never claimed they had a Mivec 4g92 with 185bhp. Highest claim ever for stock was 170bhp race octane gas.

 

[aja]

4 types of Mivec 1.6 engines.

Silver, black, black reverse and mivec MD.

By your dyno sheets and using the CORRECT drive train loss scheme of 15% (Or less) for front wheel drive those Mivec engines still produce under the the factory quoted figure. Drive train loss for a front wheel drive does not exceed 15% otherwise you got stuck with a shitty car like a Nissan Sentra Spec V (USDM Version lost 25% at the wheels - documented by Sport Compact Car magazine).

Aside from that i am unsure of the mods i didn't witness those cars on the dyno and i am still skeptical as to whether they are able to produce that much power. An exhaust mod to 2.3 or 2.5 inches (In diameter) can change the output of the car. Where as the stock exhaust was around 2 inches. (Incidentally i do not consider a car with an exhaust mod stock, even if it was to free 1 cm of space)

Instead of doing a 3rd run on a dyno try a 4th gear run. Its the closest to the crank rotation. 3rd gear measures at the wheels. 4th measures at the crank - this of course is based on my experience spent with my own car and other dyno shoot outs. Or you can always go to MATSPEED for an engine dyno.

You can also check back my findings in one tell tale article on asia temple of vtec. A Cyborg ZR vs an EG6. Despite having less power and more weight the EG6 won in both drag 1/4 mile and race course. The conclusion was that the Cyborg even when it was brand new never had that much power.

Mitsubishi never claimed they had a Mivec 4g92 with 185bhp. Highest claim ever for stock was 170bhp race octane gas.

I guess u still discussing about the 1st gen mivec (which is no longer relevant cause it's old engine) cause on the 2nd Gen mivec there is NO black, silver, MD or whatsoever. FYI, thru my experience owned & mods a Mivec CK with 2nd Gen Mivec and communications with RPW Australia on the Mivec CK performance parts, there 1 only 1 type of Mivec 2nd Gen which rated 185hp. Just info, the Mivec 2nd Gen last time is a popular breed for inhouse racing in Australia.

Dyno sheet normally do proved some indicators on the engine strenght, as we know..but chance of losing more than 20% whp on power is there. For example, my currentAccord Euro R H22A MT 220hp Honda rated, is only around 194whp. That is around only 12% loss (maybe due to 'R' type engine-donno really R or not!). But on the other hand, few of our other normal H22A fellows (MT & AT-black cover H22A, quoted around 190hp by Honda) only get as low as 140whp after dynoed. That is around 27% loss of power. Dynoed done at Speedwork & Links. After mild mods with headers, VAFC, Piping etc most of them can get max of 170whp. So, in real life, chance to get whp less more than 20% is there.

the dynoed sheet i just took from what RPW emailed to me last time, during my tenure with Mivec 2nd Gen. Not really knew the orginality.

U have to clarify which Matspeed.,it's Charlie Matspeed Sek26 S. ALam or vverca. If far i know Charlie, don't think he has the dyno machine. Or maybe dyno shop named MAtpseed in Klang Valley which I donno...have to justify la. For dyno-tune, links & amoil would be better choice.

I've running my 2nd Gen Mivec for few years ago & also now with 2.2DOHC Vtec R on the same time. The bottom-line Nothing much diffrerent for a people like me, i might say.:regular_smile:

 

[deacon]

MATSPEED has a engine dyno machine not rollers. Charlie's MATSPEED Shah Alam.

2nd gen Mivec is the engine that is flipped over correct? I already test drove one, it barely felt different from my SGTI with a few mods.

2nd gen Mivec engines are black tops. There are no Mivec 1.6s which are STOCK and produce 185bhp, sorry but i am pretty sure of that.

If there is please point me in the direction of a manufacturer page that does have one. I would be more than happy to retract my previous statements and admit i am wrong rather then beat around the bush, because i can't find any lancer CK mivec pages, sorry.

 

[gsrTurbo9166]

Your information is still incorrect.

Mitsu tested their 4g92 Mivec it was tested with race gas. IN REALITY it does 135 at the wheel which works out to 155bhp at the crank.

Proton's 4g93 GTI engine (Which i own) does not give out 144 stock. At best 138 at the crank. Some dyno days will show you the real performance of these cars. Use 115% to calculate back the difference you will be surprised.

Manufacturer claims vary. A stock Mivec i am almost sure will not produce what Mitsu says.

When measuring at the wheels there is almost a 15% drivetrain loss.

hi bro deacon

can u pls provide me where u get this information,any dyno sheets???

thanks in advanced

 

[deacon]

Considering i own a SGTI and dyno'ed it i got 128 at the wheels with an extractor and a 2 inch rear box (Muffler). Which means at stock i wasn't even close to 144bhp crank power.

As far as Mivec 1.6s. Many people have dyno'ed, even some Mivec 1.8s that were not tuned properly, only made 135bhp. I have yet to see a Mivec 1.6 do one but from the test drive that i took in a Cyborg ZR Mivec 1.6 which its 2nd gen engine, it didn't feel as fast as an EG6 i drove earlier.

I have had a lot of poeple tell me including some VERY reputable garages tell me that Mivecs can not be compared to VTECs and that Mivec 1.6 never make their posted amount of bhp. I can try and get my friend to dyno his if someone wants loan me 100RM :)

 

[sta]

I guess u still discussing about the 1st gen mivec (which is no longer relevant cause it's old engine) cause on the 2nd Gen mivec there is NO black, silver, MD or whatsoever.

lets just get one thing straight. in malaysia, only the 1st gen mivec is relevant.

 

[deacon]

There are two now dude. Gen 2's and Satria Neo's can fit EVO 4 to 9 engines and newer Mivec 1.6 engines because all these engines are reversed as opposed to the old style which would fit perfectly into a Wira, Satria etc etc.

 

[aja]

I used & few times 'race' with some EGs & EKs (some of them are my friend also) at highway previously and from my justifications, the stock Mivec 2nd Gen really can compete with B16A. As far as the topspeed for Mivec 2nd Gen concerned, factory rated was 237kmh, which is true cause many times i reached such speed at prm 73++rpm (rsm readings). Redline was 83++rpm.

The only setback for the Mivec 2 Gen is the very2 lack of performance parts, which resulted to unpopularity among protonians. As compared to Honda, of course.

I wonder as the B16A engine can kahwin with B20 or CRV blok, wonder why there is no 4G92 Mivec engine kahwin with 4G63 blocks. No experiments so far on this.


As mode of study, here is the Gear Ratios comparison for Mivec 1st Gen CA4A and 2nd Gen CJ4A/CK4A.

Model CA4A - 1st gen Mivec

Gear
1..........3.083
2..........1.947
3..........1.285
4..........0.939
5..........0.756
R..........3.083
FDR......4.592

At 100kmh your revs should be about 3100rpm. The difference could be tyre size.

Model CJ4A/CK4A - 2nd Gen Mivec

Gear
1..........3.071
2..........1.947
3..........1.379
4..........1.030
5..........0.767
R..........3.363
FDR......4.625

At 100kmh your revs should be about 3160rpm.

Based on the calculation, the top speed for a CJ4A is theoretically 237.32kmh. In real life, as i said earlier..i tested the topspeed of it >10 times..the topspeed i get is 237kmh (rsm readings)

bare in mind that post 99 Mivec CJ4A has a 2nd gear ratio of 2.055 and all as stock close ratio gearbox & high compression 11:1!!.

See the different??...3rd gear & 4th gear of Mivec Ck really differ from mivec 1st gen. Only 2nd gear same..and notice that 2nd gen mivec gearing is longer. Same goes like B16 & H22...Topspeed higher for mivec ck.

Maybe that explain why the STOCK Mivec 2nd Gen still can fight with mid mod Mivec 1st gen 1.8 !!

 

[g88]

Hmmm...how to compare a cam profiled NA with non cam profiled NA ?? ....not fair :p