350z is not an ideal car for track?

[ysl]

To sum up this topic in a nutshell, the Z is not ideal but worthy of being in a circuit... perhaps it is the "Nut" behind the wheel (aka driver) that may not be ideal for circuit racing.

How can this guy out of no where come in to conclude our discussion?

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Z problem's that mentioned above can be solved easily.

Brake - Change to Brembo or other after market caliper, racing brake pad and rotors
Underpower - install supercharger or turbo
Speedcut - install SLD or reflash ECU.
Handling - change antiroll bar and suspension.

Brakes are a definite must. I've used Endless 6pot/4pot on two cars already and although they are a bit pricey they are well worth it. Increasing power in an NA engine by way of forced induction would of course involve supporting mods. Don't overlook fueling, cooling and oiling for example. And this covers fuel pump, injectors, fuel regulator, oil cooler, intercooler, oil pump, sump upgrade etc etc. The list can go on and on.

If you were serious, you'd definitely go for an aftermarket ECU which I know you already have.

Good information from you. I think besides engine, Z33 handling need to be improved a lot for track purpose. I have replaced mine with Cusco antiroll bar and Tein Mono Flex suspension system, but still there a lot of body roll during corner, probably is because the car is too heavy. Anyone have other suggestion for me to improve further?

Hard to find Manual Z33 in Penang as well, and I suppose hard to find manual Z33 everywhere in Malaysia.

I took handling seriously and my STI had multiple bars/braces from strut bar to undercarriage bars, another three in the boot, etc all from Cusco. I even ordered a Cusco rollcage but never got aroung to installing it.

When it comes to suspension, I've used the same make and model in three cars so far which is the TEIN Mono Flex with EDFC and I feel they are worth the money especially given the in car adjustment which comes in handy when I go from town driving onto the highway or vice versa.

Expect to pay close to 10k for the Cusco parts if you wanted something like what I had in the STI. Suspension I estimate about 7k or so with the EDFC.

Agree! actually traction is what handling all about, and tire plays the most important part in traction. Anyone knows what Semi Slick or slick tire available in Malaysia for 19" wheel?

The only time I used 19" tires were on the 350z and they were terrible Falkens FK452s. Both the GTR and STI came from Japan with semi-slick tires but they were in 18 and 17 inches respectively. The GTR had Bridgestone RE55S and for I can't recall at this moment what tires the STI came with but it was a V9 Spec C. I ran Falken RT-615s on both cars with the STI upgraded to 18s to clear the brakes. Expect to pay about 1k+ per tire but don't bother driving in the rain when you've got 60-70% left or expect it to last 10,000kms. But grip was phenomenal in the dry especially when new and you've given them a chance to warm-up. In the end, I swapped to Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD for the GTR simply for the higher speed rating.

So basically, if you have these basic mods there is no reason why the 350z cannot be driven hard although I'm not a track person myself as I'm obviously demented hence my inclination towards Wangan style top speed runs. :stupid:

Don't play down a Z, Z is good for its own purpose. If you compare (stock or almost stock) Z to outright track cars (stock or almost stock) like Civic Type R, WRX and Evo, you would definately be disappointed.

Stock Z is built and marketed as a Luxury Sports Car, it is
- Heavier ~1600 KG, compare to 1200-1500 KGs for the above listed track cars
- Lower Power to Weight ratio
- RWD compared to the 4 or FWD for the above listed track cars
- Taller gear ratio
- Handling compromised slighty for comfort compared the above listed track cars

You can configure your Z to be more trackable to get good track time at SIC, comparable to WRX/EVO in your league but you will need to do a lot more and cost a lot than just changing to manual trans.

and BTW I strongly believe one reason why there are few reason why there are less Z in SIC, and one of the reason is

It is less affordable to track a Z.

Since when were Evos and WRXs track cars? What happened to rallying then? I personally have never owned an Evo though but I can tell you that a stock WRX does not handle that well but that's just my experience. But what I can tell you is that it's definitely not a track ready car.

Secondly, your weight estimate for the 350Z is about 150-200kgs off. That's a huge difference.

Thirdly, what makes you think that a 4WD is quicker round the track compared to a RWD? If that were the case, surely all track cars would run in 4WD and understeer into the crowd. Why do you think GTRs run primarily in RWD mode and the ATTESA only transfers power to the front wheels when rear wheels lose traction but only wheels are straight? They never run in 4WD in corners. Basically if the car is turning more than 10 degrees, its purely RWD. Why? Because its obviously faster.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you.

How can this guy out of no where come in to conclude our discussion?

Don't mind him; 10 posts doesn't buy much credibility these days.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

actually theres a lot of factor for the Z due to underperforming...

-suspension setup(go for bigger/thicker anti-roll bar with slight increase of spring rate) <<improve handling

-tyre..u might need to downgrade fo 18inch tyre...have better tyre choice...and making the car more agile

-brakes..as stated above

-engine power..u can always upgrade n/a or go for BOT/BOS theres a lot supercharger in the market available for Z....

-weight...as we know..this also play major role....in order to cut laptime....weight reduction was much apreciated..improve acceleration and braking...as well as handling....removing carpet,unsude item from the boot,remove rear compartment,light weight rims and so on....

-cooling system..radiator and oil cooler is a must to endure hot harsh driving

and finally...the controller itself (driver)...need a lot of proper training on braking point,angle,acceleration point,racing line,throttle and brake work,shifting,weight transfer,steering work,and most important..brave enough to be daredevil during time attack....

 

[luqae]

YouTube - 350Z Challenge - Paradigit-ELE Rally 2010

in europe 350z are use widely in rallying so i doubt that its no a great car for circuit, maybe its malaysia mentality on always blaming the car.

and [PIMPIN] the for what i know reason for circuit car are not using 4wd are because of weight and practicality, its known that 4wd provide better handling and traction, but because of weight regulation its unpractical to fit a 4wd as they will gain disadvantage. 4wd have been proven in F1 and indy car, but because of regulation they opt not to use 4wd as again because of weight. a 4wd handle much better than 2wd in any circumstances its proven. google it ;)

and the fact is a GTR outrun a porshe GT2 in nurburing show 4wd is better handling and have better traction than 2wd.

 

[ysl]

Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.

 

[Edwintst]

YSL : Hey...i'm a Z33 manual too in Penang. I have another friend too @ Penang w Z33 manual :) Mine : All 100% stock condition. Looking forward to add in mods very very soon....got penang kaki in Penang? Can arrange for sepang track day meetup..

 

[BadBoyBen]

Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.

2:33 in Sepang is a VERY good time and I think already tells everyone whether the car is good on a track or not.

 

[Edwintst]

2:33 in Sepang is a VERY good time = TOTALLY AGREE.In fact it's VERY VERY GOOD

 

[[PIMPIN]]

YouTube - 350Z Challenge - Paradigit-ELE Rally 2010

in europe 350z are use widely in rallying so i doubt that its no a great car for circuit, maybe its malaysia mentality on always blaming the car.

and [PIMPIN] the for what i know reason for circuit car are not using 4wd are because of weight and practicality, its known that 4wd provide better handling and traction, but because of weight regulation its unpractical to fit a 4wd as they will gain disadvantage. 4wd have been proven in F1 and indy car, but because of regulation they opt not to use 4wd as again because of weight. a 4wd handle much better than 2wd in any circumstances its proven. google it ;)

and the fact is a GTR outrun a porshe GT2 in nurburing show 4wd is better handling and have better traction than 2wd.

I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.

Thanks PIMPIN, you make the thread alive again after that 5hp runner concluded me down.

Not many people like to talk about Z-power, or pushing its limit. I feel this car was wrongly focused so far as most people are talking about its look, bodykit & etc.. and therefore i started this thread to invite Z PERFORMANCE lovers to come to discuss about it.

This car can be very fast on track, but a lot of handling problem.

Since we are talking about overall performance, don't mind share with you (not showoff, it is purely data for discussion) My Z33 fastest record in Sepang is 2:33, drove by my instructor on half botak Bridgestone RE11 in July. When he pit in, he also says about under and oversteer, too many.

Since then, am focus on handling problem, no more engine mod.

I think the reason why there isn't much talk locally about 350Zs being modified/raced is because from what I observe; generally those who buy 350Zs aren't interested in track racing nor outright power (there are exceptions of course or else you guys wouldn't have your own section on ZTH LOL) but in the US, the 350Z is commonly used as a daily car and on the weekends, they hit the track and some have impressive power too. But I'm sure you already know this as the US forums provide more information than what local forums can hope to provide.

I don't think you are even remotely showing off and I hope I don't come across as doing so either but I have to back-up my explanations or opinions which I can only prove by stating what I've done and experienced.

I'm not into track racing to be honest; but you do realize you sent your instructor out in a car with botak tires So perhaps you could give it another go instead of using that as a benchmark?

 

[BadBoyBen]

Come come come ... Oct 31st join Time To Attack and test yourself how good the Fairlady is.

I will be joining, but I'm not driving Fairlady ... :(

 

[ysl]

I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.



I think the reason why there isn't much talk locally about 350Zs being modified/raced is because from what I observe; generally those who buy 350Zs aren't interested in track racing nor outright power (there are exceptions of course or else you guys wouldn't have your own section on ZTH LOL) but in the US, the 350Z is commonly used as a daily car and on the weekends, they hit the track and some have impressive power too. But I'm sure you already know this as the US forums provide more information than what local forums can hope to provide.

I don't think you are even remotely showing off and I hope I don't come across as doing so either but I have to back-up my explanations or opinions which I can only prove by stating what I've done and experienced.

I'm not into track racing to be honest; but you do realize you sent your instructor out in a car with botak tires So perhaps you could give it another go instead of using that as a benchmark?

Where got botak? Half botak only lah.

Will send him in again, changing to 18" soon, less choice of good tire in 19".

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

Come come come ... Oct 31st join Time To Attack and test yourself how good the Fairlady is.

I will be joining, but I'm not driving Fairlady ... :(

Surely will do, but not this coming one, see you next year. But i think i will get other driver to drive my car, like the 5hp runner said, i'm the nut. It will embarrassing the Z33 if i drive it. sad...!

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Where got botak? Half botak only lah.

Will send him in again, changing to 18" soon, less choice of good tire in 19".

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------



Surely will do, but not this coming one, see you next year. But i think i will get other driver to drive my car, like the 5hp runner said, i'm the nut. It will embarrassing the Z33 if i drive it. sad...!

Ah sorry didn't see the 'half' heheh

 

[luqae]

I don't know about 350Zs in Europe as I don't live there but I haven't seen a 350Z competing in the WRC yet; although I'm don't follow every single event I have been to watch a few times. The trend that is apparent to me at least is that rally cars are getting shorter in terms of wheelbase; like the current STI. Look at the other manufacturers; most of them are pretty much what I'd call a 'hot hatch'. It's guess perhaps the 350z is used in other forms or levels of rallying but not in the WRC which is the pinnacle of rallying IMHO.

But then I could be wrong; I have only driven an actual rally car twice in my entire life. And no this isn't some souped up Evo or Subaru but a car that complies with all the regulations and is actually built to compete. It's a lot different from driving on the track or even on the road that's for sure.

Yes, I agree with you that 4WD systems are heavy. But full time 4WD cars understeer which makes them slower around corners. Traction is obviously fanstastic especially when launching etc; but cornering speeds are would be lower. But this is only IMHO based on my V9 STI Spec C.

As for the GTR being faster than the Porsche around the 'Ring. Well, as I've mentioned before GTRs are not full time 4WDs like a Subaru or Evo. The transfer case varies the amount of power distributed between the front and rear wheels. Obviously the latest GTR (which I don't own) uses a far more advanced ATTESA system. So the torque split is more advanced and happens much faster. What I'm saying is that, its not going through those turns as a 4WD car usually does.

Even the R33 ATTESA is 100 times faster than the R32 and if I'm not mistaken the R34 has an ATTESA 1000 times faster than the R32. What I mean is how fast the computer is able to detect loss of traction and then distribute the power accordingly to all 4 wheels. The only thing that the R35 does not have is the HICAS system but that's for another day.

Btw, my figures for the R32 maybe slightly off but its pretty much slower than an R33s. I have never had the chance to own an R32 but I do have an R34GTR V-Spec II now, and I had an R33 about 8-9 years ago.

Again, there maybe some discrepancies from what Google tells you but I guess my experiences or anyone else's can ever be the same. So what I posted in response to ysl is based on what I've encountered and I've never driven an Indy nor an F1 car; I doubt you have either nor do I follow their changing regulations.

thx for the reply [pimpin] yea i always follow rallying around europe as they use car that we not normally use and its inspiring to see how a car that we deem as not suited to some condition can be use in those situation. ur right that a rally car use a shorter wheelbase as they are much more nimble than longer wheelbase car. and yea 350z are not used in wrc but thats where mentality come in place it doesnt mean if a car are not used in a World champiosnhip event it could not be used at all. my point is to prove that 350z are used as a racing vehicle in other part of the world.

and yea i dont own a subaru impreza spec c, or any expensive sports car, but i have been driving in a few rally car, in a real rally before, and yeah i never been in an indy car, but for what ive been reading there some f1 cars and indy car have used awd and it prove awd are faster.

and awd dosent mean it have to be running awd in corner, there is where complicated hi tech gizmo come in place, even wrc car used them in which during corner they adjust the awd system base on traction and stuff technical stuff that i dont really understand, but it doesnt mean the car is 2wd, the car is still a awd. so thats y i disagree with u.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

and yea i dont own a subaru impreza spec c, or any expensive sports car, but i have been driving in a few rally car, in a real rally before, and yeah i never been in an indy car, but for what ive been reading there some f1 cars and indy car have used awd and it prove awd are faster.

and awd dosent mean it have to be running awd in corner, there is where complicated hi tech gizmo come in place, even wrc car used them in which during corner they adjust the awd system base on traction and stuff technical stuff that i dont really understand, but it doesnt mean the car is 2wd, the car is still a awd. so thats y i disagree with u.

Ok, I think we've gone OT. We were talking about 350z being ideal for track and you said they aren't as good as track ready cars like Evos and WRXs. I disagreed because neither are track ready and I backed up my statement with the experience of having owned one. I then said that a RWD car would be able to go around corners faster than a 4WD based on the latter's tendency to understeer.

Then you mentioned the GTR being faster than a Porsche at Nurburgring because its 4wd. Again, I disagreed because GTRs run primarily in RWD mode and the ATTESA system transfers power when it detects loss of traction but not in corners. So basically throughout the corners, a GTR runs in RWD mode so again I disagreed with you and I'm only basing this on what I've personally experienced. So to answer your question the GTR is both a RWD and AWD car. It's considered an AWD yet it does not drive like one - not at all.

That's when you turned the discussion towards rallying. As I've mentioned, I've only driven one a couple of times so I expressed my opinion again based on past experience. Coincidently you happen to possess experience in rallying more so than me. But I just don't understand how you drove in a real rally car yet you can't quite explain how the system works? Which rally event was this? To the best of my knowledge, local rally events cater to both two wheel and four wheel driven cars.

And if rally cars had this fancy system whereby it adjusts traction during corner then whats the need for Scandinavian flicks, etc. I'm just curious because like I said, I'm not a rally person. I just happened to have the chance to drive one because I know someone prominent in the rallying scene who has a few rally cars of his own.

This is a forum where different people come together bringing different levels of knowledge and experience. It's really OK for us to agree to disagree. I just want to understand your point of view.

 

[ysl]

Yes, we welcome everyone come to talk abt racing, performance and handling and etc, particularly involve track racing. However when come comparison, other racing type and cars will come into discussion as well.

I tries EVO before, only 4WD I ever drove. Better feel in corner exit. Better feel give me more confident to accelerate, and I do less job on steering compare to Z33. Of course there are a lot factor to determine the handling, just put them aside first. Z33 is well known oversteer car, perhaps this character can be changed but I still not able to achieve that. So I assume when both EVO and Z33 turn and exit turn at the same speed and same line, Z33 driver might need to react to the car like monkey; both car can achieve the same laptime, but Z33 driver will become very tired after 10 laps.

I have put a lot afford to improve my Z's handling, only 1 thing I haven't done is to put GT wings.

I'm not the good driver (not yet, hehe), but I've passed many subaru and evo in the straight line, simply because I have big horse and overkill brake kit. But very frustrating that I can never able to win them if we continue for 5+ laps. In most cases, when I push harder, I will ended up on the stone or grass.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Yes, we welcome everyone come to talk abt racing, performance and handling and etc, particularly involve track racing. However when come comparison, other racing type and cars will come into discussion as well.

I tries EVO before, only 4WD I ever drove. Better feel in corner exit. Better feel give me more confident to accelerate, and I do less job on steering compare to Z33. Of course there are a lot factor to determine the handling, just put them aside first. Z33 is well known oversteer car, perhaps this character can be changed but I still not able to achieve that. So I assume when both EVO and Z33 turn and exit turn at the same speed and same line, Z33 driver might need to react to the car like monkey; both car can achieve the same laptime, but Z33 driver will become very tired after 10 laps.

I have put a lot afford to improve my Z's handling, only 1 thing I haven't done is to put GT wings.

I'm not the good driver (not yet, hehe), but I've passed many subaru and evo in the straight line, simply because I have big horse and overkill brake kit. But very frustrating that I can never able to win them if we continue for 5+ laps. In most cases, when I push harder, I will ended up on the stone or grass.

Of course you will oversteer, it's a RWD car. All things being equal, a RWD car in the hands of a good driver will have a cornering speed that is faster than a 4WD car driven by the same driver. We're talking about the characteristics of how the cars with different drivetrain setups handle and which are quicker.

Obviously in time your Zed will become quicker since you are serious about modifying it. I don't know you'd need a GT Wing. I use one purely because I hit 300 regularly. Btw, what brake kit are you using? Any plans for more power?

 

[ysl]

Of course you will oversteer, it's a RWD car. All things being equal, a RWD car in the hands of a good driver will have a cornering speed that is faster than a 4WD car driven by the same driver. We're talking about the characteristics of how the cars with different drivetrain setups handle and which are quicker.

Obviously in time your Zed will become quicker since you are serious about modifying it. I don't know you'd need a GT Wing. I use one purely because I hit 300 regularly. Btw, what brake kit are you using? Any plans for more power?

Oh really? RWD able to get out from turn faster? Thanks for the info. You see I learn something new d.

Brembo GT Monobloc, same model as F430 one. No more power, improve the driver first.

 

[[PIMPIN]]

Oh really? RWD able to get out from turn faster? Thanks for the info. You see I learn something new d.

Brembo GT Monobloc, same model as F430 one. No more power, improve the driver first.

My friend got the same Brembo GT but not sure if its exactly same as F430 as in design/materials etc. But he got from SG; apparently they are cheaper there but his weren't modified as they were made for his model.

 

[TamanLinkin]

its good to see theres a z owner who loves it and drive it like it should, hehe. its a good car on track if you wanna have fun. if you want to go for time attack, type r is still the best. designed to charge into the corner, unlike z where you need to go in slow, slingshot fast out. if you a pro lol. as for me for now its still good for me as i go to sepang to have fun only hehe.

anyway, when is the next trackday ah? i itching already wanna drive fast ( faster a bit then national speed la hehe )

 

[starlife]

350Z making 2:48 in SIC ...??

heheheheee .......

sorry to heard tat bro .....

my Ae92 hatchback doing da same timing .....

:-)