Real Economy - Petrol or Diesel car ?

[arturo]

i vote diesels.

VW Passat BlueMotion Sets Mileage Record

not cos of that piece of achievement...cos when the world turns to shit, i can pour whatever petroleum or homemade spirits into my diesel and still run. WTH...i can just pour in filtered week old goreng pisang oil and still chug along. can i do that with a petrol?

lets just leave depreciation out of this...buying cars based on their depreciation rates are for economists, not car lovers. its old fashioned and defeats the point. if depreciation is such a big point, take the bus instead. good luck finding a petrol driven bus....i wonder why...

speaking in terms of economy, how can anything be compared when we have so few low end diesel cars here? all comparison is based on BMW's, Mercs and maybe the Ford focus TDCI (which are already classified as premium cars and comes with premium maintance costs) AND mostly with pickups. Please compare between a gold TSI vs Golf bluemotion diesel...

If the gomen starts implementing Euro4m and auto makers start bringing in diesels, I'd go for a dirt cheap diesel n buy week old goreng pisang oil from the goreng pisang sellers around my area to suplement my fuel usage. How's that for economy?

oh....i just remembered another thing...i wonder why all heavy military vehicles run on diesels?

 

[pwhyze]

lets just leave depreciation out of this...buying cars based on their depreciation rates are for economists, not car lovers. its old fashioned and defeats the point. if depreciation is such a big point, take the bus instead.

Nicely put. Agreed.

 

[YYC]

Most ships and submarines run on diesel too. Is that not because of reliability and economy?

 

[arturo]

2003 honda city IDSI market price today = 39k
2003 ford ranger NA market price today = 45k

I would say the depreciation is around the same give or take a few thousand. take into consideration the maintanance costs + fuel savings i would say the ranger still wins? the ranger was a workhorse around really tough conditions. just imagine if the city were used as rough as the ranger would have been used...i would say the city wouldnt be priced at 39k if it were in bad condition...

this are calculations made based on Malaysian market.

Lesley. You started an open discussion. I think you need to accept that all discussions have more than 1 side to it and calling everybody who disagrees with you an idiot is uncalled for.

 

[ixeo]

Some diesel powered car owners are saying that their cars are very economical to run...

Petrol powered car owners also saying that their cars are cheaper to run...

In terms of "REAL ECONOMY" meaning the cheapest car to run for say 5 years or so....

Which do you think is?

And why ?:proud:

Just one important question. How many KM per month?

If you compare 320d and 320i, they are 248k and 238k respectively. Maintenance pretty much the same, you are paying Banyak Masuk Workshop maintenance after warranty period for both BMWs.

So we are talking about RM10k price difference

F30 BMW 320d First Impression Test Drive
CBT says 7.8 per 100km, 700~800 on a 57 litre tank.

BMW Malaysia claims a combined fuel consumption of
320i 6L/100km
320d 4.5L/100km

The average joe probably drives 20,000km a year.

so the 320i would have used 1200 litres of petrol, and the 320d would have used 900 litres of diesel
RON95 and diesel same price..so.. for 5 years, that would be

320i = 1200 x 5 = 6000 x 1.9 = 11400
320d = 900 x 5 = 4500 x 1.9 = 8550

Both have 3 years warranty. On the 4th or 5th year.. got problem or not is hit and miss. But considering both are BMWs its an apple to apple comparison.

So conclusion? Petrol offers real economy in this context.

HOWEVER, if we changed it to travelling 5000km per month, that would be
320i = 3600 x 5 = 18000 x 1.9 = 34200
320d = 2700 x 5 = 13500 x 1.9 = 25650

And you are still coming out short :) If you travel 10000km per month, diesel sure wins, but that's 300+ km a day.

All these are assuming BMW's fuel consumption claim is accurate.

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

No hard feelings bro.

Just would appreciate you all can discuss on a more balanced note,

And not twisting facts, typing error...

If you dont mind me saying....

Some of you seems to be trying your best to carry the balls of your sansin...Its very obvious la..
Up to the extent of leaving this out (vast depreciation) and leaving that out (heavy maintainance bills) in order to look good !

Come on la, discuss fairly dont bluff & cheat!

Another joker also came out with comparison of 2 different cars of 2 different years trying to bullshit that diesel cars dont depreciate that much...

Its too obvious la....

I wouldn't say you are totally wrong that petrol cars are much more value to buy, more worth it or something like that
if that is what you mean. Half right and half wrong.

The reason from what I see, why other disagreed, is cuz most of your replies do not have strong
facts or proof to back your statement. Example , Mercedes is the King of Diesel?

You got it half right and half not so right. Diesel Cars do end up more worth it, one of the best examples like IXEO bro gave. Well, like you said compare fair and square right?

IXEO already gave us the best and fair comparison...

HOWEVER, if we changed it to travelling 5000km per month, that would be
320i = 3600 x 5 = 18000 x 1.9 = 34200
320d = 2700 x 5 = 13500 x 1.9 = 25650

UNLESS you buy a diesel car and dont drive it often, that's where you make a loss. Not stated by me...
read more here...

Diesel vs petrol: Used diesel car only cheaper if you do 10,000 miles | This is Money

In short, in a long run, if compare fairly, you benefit from diesel cars more than petrol cars.

Talking about depreciation, since all are actually involve in your question here, some petrol cars depreciate even more than
diesel cars.

From the look of the market price for 2nd hand cars, I think is not whether the car is running on diesel or petrol that determines
it's resale value. Rather it is depends on the demand from consumers. Okay let's compare petrol vs petrol cars in terms
of depreciation or resale value.

Why a hyundai accent resale value is much lower than a Toyota Vios?
(or just compare both brand alone Toyota VS Hyundai/Kia)

Is just depends on the demand in the market.
Another example, my 2nd hand Kelisa Year 2006, cost the same as a new lowest spec Viva 660cc...

Really car resale value not determined by petrol or diesel model.

Anyway, everyone can understand more from the article that I found in the link i posted above...

 

[YYC]

Just one important question. How many KM per month?

If you compare 320d and 320i, they are 248k and 238k respectively. Maintenance pretty much the same, you are paying Banyak Masuk Workshop maintenance after warranty period for both BMWs.

So we are talking about RM10k price difference

F30 BMW 320d First Impression Test Drive
CBT says 7.8 per 100km, 700~800 on a 57 litre tank.

BMW Malaysia claims a combined fuel consumption of
320i 6L/100km
320d 4.5L/100km

The average joe probably drives 20,000km a year.

so the 320i would have used 1200 litres of petrol, and the 320d would have used 900 litres of diesel
RON95 and diesel same price..so.. for 5 years, that would be

320i = 1200 x 5 = 6000 x 1.9 = 11400
320d = 900 x 5 = 4500 x 1.9 = 8550

Both have 3 years warranty. On the 4th or 5th year.. got problem or not is hit and miss. But considering both are BMWs its an apple to apple comparison.

So conclusion? Petrol offers real economy in this context.

HOWEVER, if we changed it to travelling 5000km per month, that would be
320i = 3600 x 5 = 18000 x 1.9 = 34200
320d = 2700 x 5 = 13500 x 1.9 = 25650

And you are still coming out short :) If you travel 10000km per month, diesel sure wins, but that's 300+ km a day.

All these are assuming BMW's fuel consumption claim is accurate.

Hi ixeo, for the sake of pure discussion, what if we look deeper into 320i and 320d in terms of what you actually get besides the RM10,000 price difference. To equalise the all the internal factors minus the maintenance cost, what extra items you get extra for the RM10,000 difference are:

1) Same 135kW power output at a lower 4,000rpm for 320d
2) 110nm (41%) more torque for 320d
3) 5km/h (5%) faster top speed for 320i
4) 23g/km (16%) less CO2 emission for 320d

Maybe if we equalise these differences on a scale, both come out as a winner on its own.

 

[ixeo]

Hi ixeo, for the sake of pure discussion, what if we look deeper into 320i and 320d in terms of what you actually get besides the RM10,000 price difference. To equalise the all the internal factors minus the maintenance cost, what extra items you get extra for the RM10,000 difference are:

1) Same 135kW power output at a lower 4,000rpm for 320d
2) 110nm (41%) more torque for 320d
3) 5km/h (5%) faster top speed for 320i
4) 23g/km (16%) less CO2 emission for 320d

Maybe if we equalise these differences on a scale, both come out as a winner on its own.

It depends on what context, or what is important to the guy holding the cash. As they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

1) True, but at the same time the 320d cannot rev high.
2) True, but see point 1, I feel "more power" when I rev higher. (Like how B16B owners think they are powerful with their high revving torqueless wonders). General public tend to think HORSEPOWER IS ALL THAT MATTERS. We know better. :)
3) Irrelevant in Malaysia roads, plus most Malaysian's balls will shrink before that.
4) Irrelevant in Malaysia, since I'm going to decat my 320i anyway.
5) DESPITE point 2) 0-100 times for both 320d and 320i are identical, due to 1) at the end of the day the higher torque will give a different driving experience.

In the context of the 320d & 320i, the diesel will be really economical if
a. You travel a lot and
b. You plan to keep the car for a while

 

[arturo]

It depends on what context, or what is important to the guy holding the cash. As they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

1) True, but at the same time the 320d cannot rev high.
2) True, but see point 1, I feel "more power" when I rev higher. (Like how B16B owners think they are powerful with their high revving torqueless wonders). General public tend to think HORSEPOWER IS ALL THAT MATTERS. We know better. :)
3) Irrelevant in Malaysia roads, plus most Malaysian's balls will shrink before that.
4) Irrelevant in Malaysia, since I'm going to decat my 320i anyway.
5) DESPITE point 2) 0-100 times for both 320d and 320i are identical, due to 1) at the end of the day the higher torque will give a different driving experience.

In the context of the 320d & 320i, the diesel will be really economical if
a. You travel a lot and
b. You plan to keep the car for a while

ixeo...what about depreciation? E28 '86 now sells for less than RM5k stock standard sort of working condition... BMW only recently introduced their diesel line so do you have any info on the depreciation rates?

 

[YYC]

Haha, ok. TS wants to discuss diesel and petrol car in economic term, i.e. facts and figures. I would present my opinions as it is (in blue):

It depends on what context, or what is important to the guy holding the cash. As they say, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

1) True, but at the same time the 320d cannot rev high.
- This is not economics.
2) True, but see point 1, I feel "more power" when I rev higher. (Like how B16B owners think they are powerful with their high revving torqueless wonders). General public tend to think HORSEPOWER IS ALL THAT MATTERS. We know better. :)
- This is psychological.
3) Irrelevant in Malaysia roads, plus most Malaysian's balls will shrink before that.
- Maybe not important. However 320i has marginal better top speed in figure. Shrunk ball changed to titanium one adds value to economy
4) Irrelevant in Malaysia, since I'm going to decat my 320i anyway.
- It does add more CO2 to our atmosphere in reality but we all don't care. It's a cost to the our living environment (Maybe I talk this too far here. Btw my car was decat too. )
5) DESPITE point 2) 0-100 times for both 320d and 320i are identical, due to 1) at the end of the day the higher torque will give a different driving experience.
- We can't put a figure on experience however.

In the context of the 320d & 320i, the diesel will be really economical if
a. You travel a lot and
b. You plan to keep the car for a while

 

[Izso]

I say fug you all. And screw economy. I wanna get a fuel guzzling Veryon and burn all my fuel in 12 minutes at maximum velocity... and die in a blazing ball of fire... in full reverse while smiling my ass off because I can.

Regardless of the discussion, all cars are liabilities. There is no 'real' economy imho until they can fully roll out hydrogen fuel cell cars like the Honda Clarity. That's long term economy for schizzle and true planet saving too unlike those bullshit hybrids.

Pardon the 'french' and crap talk but I'm a little lightheaded from the bleach I inhaled while washing the toilet.

 

[ixeo]

ixeo...what about depreciation? E28 '86 now sells for less than RM5k stock standard sort of working condition... BMW only recently introduced their diesel line so do you have any info on the depreciation rates?

Insufficient data to indicate depreciation at the moment, but expect BMW depreciation lor.

Haha, ok. TS wants to discuss diesel and petrol car in economic term, i.e. facts and figures. I would present my opinions as it is (in blue):

My first post was fact and figures, somebody asked me the points I just responded in kind, as the points raised were not relevant to economy. which is why I said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but numbers don't lie.

I think this thread can be closed because the conclusion is
Diesel is bad economy in comparison to petrol if
1. you don't travel a lot
2. you change car every 5 years

Now I'll go take a video of Izso blowing up in a ball of flames and upload it on Youtube.

 

[kyokonitori88]

There's a big difference between petrol and diesel.

Petrol engine produces more power compare to diesel making it more responsive. Diesel engine has more torque than petrol. Diesel engine cars ted to cost more but petrol engine produces fewer overall emissions.
In overall, its important to think carefully and evaluate on how you will use the car before buying a diesel or petrol powered vehicle.

 

[D7zul]

only people who 'own' both engine can give u the right conclusion..

 

[papagoines]

Yeah, really want to read a good honest debate though...

well, I've consulted with people face to face that owns both diesel and petrol cars and already concluded that when I'm financially capable of owning a new car, I will buy diesel car since

1. I tends to pile high mileage in my car
2. I tend to get attached with the cars I own so resale value won't hurt me much

For me, deriving opinions from online forum alone shouldn't be enough....

LOL...most terpesong thread of the year.

does the TS still want to continue the discussion as per thread title as it seems that all diesel supporters are sansinscrotumsuckers?

if it is already pre-ordained that petrol is more economical from the get go, is there a point in continuing this thread any further as all opposition rebuttals are invalid.

 

[arturo]

papagoines...hope u dun regret it.

 

[papagoines]

papagoines...hope u dun regret it.

hahaha... hope not....

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Put up your fence and defense and get ready for Lieutenant Petrol bro
Will attack you soon...

defence? seen my avatar? hohohohoho

 

[cvkit17]

defence? seen my avatar? hohohohoho

trololololololololololololololololololololol

Both has their own advantages lar...its like chicken rice and chicken noodles...depends on what you want

 

[ixeo]

For me, deriving opinions from online forum alone shouldn't be enough....

Opinions are like assholes, everybody have one.

Numbers are undeniable indisputable fact, just like how ixeo is teh winnar.

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

Range Rover manufacturers might seems stupid that they make Diesel SUVs and it doesn't come cheap either....one of it
sounds tempting...3.6litre V8 Twin Turbo Diesel engine