Suspension Discussion - Tein Superstreet

[feliccw]

Dear all Ae101/Ae111 member,

i've new to the forum, a bit curious about on the chassis and suspension on Ae111. Hopefully, I could have some comment,opinion and advise on suspension tuning guide. Currently, I m driving a JDM corolla GT Ae111 with McPhreson strut with monroe reflex with TRD lowered spring.

For my future upgrade, i was thinkin of Tein superstreet. I m looking into comfort and sporty, wont be doing trackday & no pillow mount intended. Plus, according to Tein catalogue...it has mentioned that helper spring is provide. As i ve experienced a set before that is way to stiff that I m bouncing all way long during the highway.

Question
1. Does helper spring work??If so care to explain
2. any comments on tein superstreet?Any of you using???
3. What r the adjustable that your using???any comments

greatly appreciated on your comment??TQ:wavey:

 

[scottwrx]

good thread, a lot of guys including me would like to know more about the adjustable also..
but comfort is quite subjective also, coz some may say it is too soft while other may say it is too stiff..

i am also looking into comfortable adjustable now.. sifus kind to share your input?

Bump: good thread, a lot of guys including me would like to know more about the adjustable also..
but comfort is quite subjective also, coz some may say it is too soft while other may say it is too stiff..

i am also looking into comfortable adjustable now.. sifus kind to share your input?

 

[feliccw]

Thank Q, scottWrx..
my current spring rate is F3.2k and R3.0K...the rear is ok but it would be nice to have the damping rate adjust. The front i've still find can be improve...I ve experiended with 6k spring rate as it too stiff. a fren of mine event mentioned that, it would damage your car structure if ya damper is way to stiff..

TQ

 

[ftzone]

There is no such thing as comfortable and yet having the super handling performance at the same time.

TEIN Super Street is a good starting choice should you need to adjust the damping rate to suit your style. However, the price is quite high at the moment. Most of the TEIN I've sold or friends which is using it consider it a little hard (good for handling but poor for comfort) Perhaps it's because it's coupled with harder spring rates.
Well this applies maybe in Malaysia typical pot holed, super high speed bumps and uneven roads. Or you can try out TEIN Type Basic instead... if available for your application. they are not too bad either.

If you are looking for inexpensive height adjustable coilovers you should also seriously consider our Malaysian made Coilovers from HWL. They are up to my customers expectation so far. It's not too hard and it can be selected with softer spring rates for more comfortable driving.

 

[dennisdreams]

For street driving, it's still highly recommend to go for standard/performance spring with OEM design. Which had slower respond/reflex time compare to adjustable spring which had high respond time to adapt to circuit/high speed driving. As for damper wise, there's certain model of damper which offer damping duty adjustable as well, and it's quite reasonable compare to hi-lo-soft-hard adjustable and would offer better ride comfort.

Bump: For street driving, it's still highly recommend to go for standard/performance spring with OEM design. Which had slower respond/reflex time compare to adjustable spring which had high respond time to adapt to circuit/high speed driving. As for damper wise, there's certain model of damper which offer damping duty adjustable as well, and it's quite reasonable compare to hi-lo-soft-hard adjustable and would offer better ride comfort.

 

[normality78]

agreed with Dennis. If you're seeking for comfort, maybe you wan to give a miss of coilover. Afterall, you need to know what you want to achieve. Having adjustable is good but ultimately you may also want to make sure the spring rate is at your preference. Given 6kg spring with soft hard absorber feat, u will still face hard ride. So everything play in hand.

If tackling corner with more stable feeling, u may not want to neglect some chasis re-inforcement bar and antiroll bar also.

 

[feliccw]

Thankz dennis and normality,

point taken, let talk about the spring rate....current what is is being mentioned in Tein catalogue it has mentioned that the spring rate for superstreet is front 5kg and rear 3kg. currently, i do find that 3kg in the rear is okay..as for 5kg in front still have not experience yet...but 6kg is definitely way to stiff..

so any comments on 5kg??spring rate in front???what i lowered to 4kg???will be better???

 

[sbirdz]

I can answer you on question 3 ^-^

Not sure if Tein Flex is close to Tein Superstreet, because if i set "0" on my flex and runs on road.. I feels like ...................... MY FUCKING TEIN becomes useless bastard!~

So if u say something as soft, comfort and lembik... I will give Tein Flex a thumbs up here.. but hopefully not a off topic here la.. and i see the super street it is not much of difference from Tein flex...

How much did u find out the price of Tein Superstreet?

and one more words, CUSCO, JIC, blablablaba!!! u set to lowest also... you can't bring a pregnant lady and let her sit inside ur car... she will feel the pain and discomfort there inside your car... but if u have a pregnant wife... :) She won't sound u on Tein flex.. and that;s why i said, TEIN FLEX on lowest setting.. really feels like iskh!~~ SHIT!SHIT!

 

[normality78]

im riding 6kg @ front and still ok. Not sure abt u guys though, for me, im addicted to stifness.. whahahahaha

 

[AE80TypeD]

very sorry to the topic starter as i would like to deviate this discussion for a bit since we're already talking suspensions & spring rates.

i would like some input for the other end of the spectrum here. what would be the suitable spring rate(s) for a corolla if its intended for full track use? dont worry abt discussing the damping or absorber side. i would just like some stories / observatons / experiences / friend's friend tale / opinions abt springs rates for a corolla track-only car, striving for 100% cornering performance, 0% comfort. its really hard to find guidance out here bcoz there are so few toyota track cars around.

here's why im asking; a while ago, i hung out with 2 friends who drove a honda EK & a satria, both of which are already equipped with adjustable suspensions. so we started talking abt them, comparing info when i mentioned what ive seen from my toyota friends' setups, among us in the toyota circle anything above 5kgF/4kgR is considered hard. what i got were blank stares & then they started laughing their ass off at me :( i was told then that proton track car builders usually play around the 10kgF/8kgR range & my honda EK friend (roadgoing weekend car) had 12kgF/10kgR installed for him. i said that's crazy but was laughed at even more. sigh.

im not looking to assert or defend ANY statement or opinion of my own or from my story. all i wanna know is;

what the heck do u put in a track car & how hard shud it be for a toyota body? suggestions are welcome too. this is assumed for a stripped toyota corolla body with minor bolt on chassis reinforcement, no rollcage & no spot welding yet. roughly 1100kg with driver.

thank you for ur time & kind replies.

Bump: very sorry to the topic starter as i would like to deviate this discussion for a bit since we're already talking suspensions & spring rates.

i would like some input for the other end of the spectrum here. what would be the suitable spring rate(s) for a corolla if its intended for full track use? dont worry abt discussing the damping or absorber side. i would just like some stories / observatons / experiences / friend's friend tale / opinions abt springs rates for a corolla track-only car, striving for 100% cornering performance, 0% comfort. its really hard to find guidance out here bcoz there are so few toyota track cars around.

here's why im asking; a while ago, i hung out with 2 friends who drove a honda EK & a satria, both of which are already equipped with adjustable suspensions. so we started talking abt them, comparing info when i mentioned what ive seen from my toyota friends' setups, among us in the toyota circle anything above 5kgF/4kgR is considered hard. what i got were blank stares & then they started laughing their ass off at me :( i was told then that proton track car builders usually play around the 10kgF/8kgR range & my honda EK friend (roadgoing weekend car) had 12kgF/10kgR installed for him. i said that's crazy but was laughed at even more. sigh.

im not looking to assert or defend ANY statement or opinion of my own or from my story. all i wanna know is;

what the heck do u put in a track car & how hard shud it be for a toyota body? suggestions are welcome too. this is assumed for a stripped toyota corolla body with minor bolt on chassis reinforcement, no rollcage & no spot welding yet. roughly 1100kg with driver.

thank you for ur time & kind replies.

 

[km_chew]

Are you building a car for the track ?

 

[feliccw]

sbirdz,

so your saying that tein flex at a acceptable rate for street use???

I ve ask n1 racing, they have quote me about 6k for tein superstreet. so i m putting for my future plan, may even as them to swap d front for 4kg spring rate.

my AE111 is getting old, so a full remake and rebuild is in the plan. Wuahkaka...

Bump: AE80typeD,

A track car is totally different in setting of their suspension, their chassis and suspension varies different down to the basic of the car.

For Honda, they r well known for their double wishbone design which is a track killers. Yes, i ve seen some DC2 or EG riddin on spring rate stiffer than 10k, sum even 20k in front. But, you need to pre your car structure in order to sustain and maintain this kinda spring as our factory car arent meant for this stiff. Preparation like rewelding your car structure plus a race pre roll cage that would strengthen the whole car.

Spring rate setting differs from track to track, some track surface r smooth would allow you to go stiffer settings. Most of the settings are focusing on how to manage to moving forces of the car - ie: weight distribution under braking and cornering. A stiff setting does not always be best, you also have evaluate the weight and hp of your car. You would also decide on the understeer or oversteer varies upon on tracks

As for Ae111, i think what TRD adjustable is offering will be more close to or even at track car spring rate setting. 8k front and 6k rear. The most i ve seem are 10k in front. Becoz spring rate is just part of it, you have camber,toe angle, tyres and more to play around.

Hope it is helpful

Bump: AE80typeD,

A track car is totally different in setting of their suspension, their chassis and suspension varies different down to the basic of the car.

For Honda, they r well known for their double wishbone design which is a track killers. Yes, i ve seen some DC2 or EG riddin on spring rate stiffer than 10k, sum even 20k in front. But, you need to pre your car structure in order to sustain and maintain this kinda spring as our factory car arent meant for this stiff. Preparation like rewelding your car structure plus a race pre roll cage that would strengthen the whole car.

Spring rate setting differs from track to track, some track surface r smooth would allow you to go stiffer settings. Most of the settings are focusing on how to manage to moving forces of the car - ie: weight distribution under braking and cornering. A stiff setting does not always be best, you also have evaluate the weight and hp of your car. You would also decide on the understeer or oversteer varies upon on tracks

As for Ae111, i think what TRD adjustable is offering will be more close to or even at track car spring rate setting. 8k front and 6k rear. The most i ve seem are 10k in front. Becoz spring rate is just part of it, you have camber,toe angle, tyres and more to play around.

Hope it is helpful

 

[normality78]

ae80typeD bro, all that i can say is give a try on their car. Thn u will know who laugh who. I admit 6kg and 4kg is more on street spec but if u see those who apply such spec, normally its their daily ride.

I do find alot of plp having wrong conception about goign hardest for track. To me its achieve balance. Suspension must still need to have certain re-bounce rate else its quite impossible to drive.

 

[AE80TypeD]

thanks for all the input. i came to this topic as a total idiot, i am really having a total blank streak going at the moment. the confusion is killing my brain so just shoot anything u got haha. even if its something u overheard from somebody who played track car toyota b4 i would really appreciate the info, even if its just rumor i really need a baseline.

yes, i am planning to build a weekend car only for circuits; yet i do not have the moolah to go all out on the stuff that really matters; like roll cage & chassis strengthening. i will go on the record here to say that i totally admit what u guys suggested are THE FIRST & FOREMOST vital steps to take in building a no-compromise track car, GOD KNOWS my heart aches to do the right thing first & to do it the right way. however as we all experience from time to time, real life is often "unfair" & things are never so tidy.

i confess that i have just barely enuff money to carry out the chassis strenghtening process; maybe even get half a cage done first. but it means waiting much, much longer for a chance to finally purchase a proper, raceworthy set of suspensions i waited & collected for close to 7 years for this chance to purchase a set of adjustables for meself & i didnt want to go the ignorant (but easy route) of smacking a set of used JIC or Tein from some halfcut yard. i want to KNOW every detail abt what im riding on. im not so delusional as to want to get everything right the very first time, but it does help to have a baseline to work with & its really annoying when u have contradictory evidence in front of u.

i know what some of u are gonna say next; "it wouldnt be worth it if u get super stiff super performance suspension at the cost of tearing or cracking ur car body to pieces" or something like that... but i cannot bear to wait any longer for a suspension upgrade. im thinking of going to some kind of middle ground. i guess it'll be slightly higher than what u guys are talking abt for ur cars, but not as hard as my proton & honda pals' setting. maybe 1st attempt would be around 8kg/6kg or something, argh dunnolah. damping rate will never be a smooth process i know, it will always need my input & tweaking but im not worried abt that coz my heart is kinda set on customizable builders (which leaves me little choice on the company really, most prolly good ol' HWL haha).

its just the spring rates im confused about, & i would just like to cut down the number of times i have to go back to the factory to change springs, thats all. sorry for the tiring rant & thanks again for your point of views. worst come to worst, if i end up too soft, ill slap on stiffer sway bars under there lol.

 

[normality78]

AE80 bro,
Can i assume your track car is not ready yet? You havent hit into track yet? If so, i would say forget about those thing in ur mind. Go ahead and hit into track 1st and enjoy it 1st. From there, then you will know what is the thing you want.

my 2cents, suspension not the only key and there is a whole lot more to convert into handling. Unless you're super duper rich, buy everything top notch. Then all you left is tuned up your suspension as your suspension SHOULD be up to task. However, i can almost guarantee you that will not be the case, even you've got top notch products.

So i would to say, hit the track and enjoy 1st. Frm there u will enjoy the upgrade and learning process.

 

[mamatAE111]

Adjustable oh adjustable. Why can't you be both comfortable yet hard enough for the track?

I like adjustable topic. Because there's so much grey area, anybody can bullshit anything, hahaha...

I consider myself newbie (since I'm still driving 4AFE auto only..) . So I like to do Google search before I buy my adjustable. I found this thread at trdforums.com to be very helpful.
http://trdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32446
Quoted from the link=
Tein SuperStreet
Part Numbers: GST94-B1SS4
Features: 1 way height/preload adjustment, 16way twin tube dampening adjustment, Spring rates F: 5kg/mm R: 3 kg/mm
MSRP:
http://www.tein.co.jp
Notes: Special order from Tein Japan, EDFC compatible, not included in the US catalogue because application doesn't have a brake line retainer for rear drums
My Impressions: Great coilovers but lower spring rates than usual, rebuilds are done in the US by Tein!

I bought this adjustable =
SilkRoad Section RM/A8
Part Numbers: AE101
Features: 2 way height & preload adjustment, 8way dampening adjustment, inverted monotube, 8kg/mm F | 5kg/mm R, upper ridgid aluminum mounts, front camber plates
MSRP:
http://www.silkroad-usa.com/
http://www.intecracing.com/

Of course bought second hand, since I am also not rich to buy new.
Buying second hand is at your own risk, so check carefully the unit you want to buy.
Buying second hand also better if you want to feel which adjustable is soft enough for your butt. If the unit is too hard, you can sell back without losing too much money.

My dream adjustable. If anyone is selling this, please let me know.
Cusco Zero2
Part Numbers: 122 60L CP
Features: 2 way height & preload adjustment, 5 way dampening adjustment, 7kg/mm F | 5kg/mm R, upper pillow mounts, front camber plates
MSRP:
http://www.cuscoracing.com
Notes: Special order from Japan through napsusa.com
My Impressions: Extremely high quality coilover, I personally run them on my car and many say the ride quality is are the best they've experience before.

 

[sbirdz]

...........

sbirdz,

so your saying that tein flex at a acceptable rate for street use???........

........

Hmn... AE80TypeD brother, 10kg front 8 kg rear... u sure u can go home safetly? and ur gf dun mind? having the twin milks ball bouncing in front, it is not something funny leh!~ the female creatures will FLAME u alive ones... those setting is for Track, if so wanna go hardcore, take JIC je la... JIC also can use on road r... u what how keras also can... just change it's spring rate to highest and heaviest.. u get urselves a superb suspension till everything start to tanggal inside ur car... and pretty easy....

My car Tein setup with 18th level vs my friend Cusco zero2 with just 3rd level

We use ICE-CREAM as proof... See who eat until FUCK people there... My car Tein Flex can be set onto a stage whereby really a grandma won't feel it rocky.. and even ITU VIOS lagi feel lagi a bit keras... :) dun say wanna makan ice-cream on cusco la... I wanna tekan that fucking buttons on my friend's car also kenot.. i have to fucking place my another hand on his dashboard only i can press those button at his car... he know who he is here.. :D sei ketam putih!~ :D


and Feliccw, if u are asking me to pay rm6k out just for a blardy suspension on AE101... no offend la.. i rather just spend rm2k and then spare the rest on other thing... 6k for a new set... gezz... over my dead body la... UNless i am driving Skyline or supras la... maybe i can think about this geh... and this is about the price... and regarding comfort.. i can guarantee u.. and if u interested... Come and find me at Friday tt cheras... there is a thread u can find me.. or in my nick there has my info... :) just pm me... i can guarantee u... my car can main rally inside kampung jalan makan icecream... but cusco!~ hahaha!!! u prepare to langgar that car roof...


and mamatAE111, ^-^ Teori and practical makes a good answer here.. u read u sit u never know.. but if u see some insane friend... Just to buy few set of adjustable absorber and trying to use some other brand absorber and manage to reach the comfort of my Tein Flex, then u will understand... Absorber works in few ways... inverter monotube and another 1 i lupa.. tein flex is twin something... a bit complicated... and Tein HA and HR are same as others which are also monotube... and

the stiffness... :) is actually something u can do with the spring rates... I have a friend using cusco with kgmm spring... and he said, that cusco is as hard as JIC absorber.. and his whole car thing starts to fall down.. :) so... u can adjust the thing with springs...


anywya, there is a lot more about adjustable absorber... 1-5 level damper or 1-28th level damper...


but if street comfort... i suggest the person to go for soft-hard.. :) if u aren't aiming on day to go Genting sempah to challenge the road.. :)

 

[AE80TypeD]

Bro norm,

thx for the advice :) preciate it. Ive been to SIC 3 times so far (its the only track im planning to play in the near future anyway); 2 times with my jello equipped clunker (AE101 levin stock suspensions from halfcut) & once i drove my mech's proton wira track car (used Tein dunnowhatmodel). i know its far from what u call being a veteran, but theres 1 thing i know i need for sure; harder suspensions hahahaha. i might not know the detailed specs of what i want, but i do realize what i need to buy in general

bro mamatAE111,

thats exactly what i also found thru my own research. its why im having this splitting headache bcoz so many contradictory sources are throwing info in my brain & its killing me. outside world i get crazy figures from ppl driving other brands, yet in the internet.. i cannot find a SINGLE reliable source of info abt ANY toyota going that far. it seems as tho nobody who drives toyota bothers with extreme driving OR its like honda need crazy springs to go so fast yet toyotas can go just as fast (or not) with the rates we see from those websites. dont get me wrong, i LOVE a good underdog story where a "soft" suspended toyota could still outcorner a 20kg/16kg honda, but we're not living in a cartoon hehe. what im saying is, i have no concrete footing & dunno who to believe bcoz i am very stupid

when all else fails, i will have to do it the hard way; just go buy whatever first n feel it for myself. solve it slowly from there. i just wished i had some help for the first step heheh

bro sbirdz,

hahahaha i love to make milkshakes mah, one drive can already have 2 jugs of milkshake woot, nice hor.. damn funny la u. that 10kg/8kg satria guy & his gf is his problem la. im a lonely driver & i dont care abt shaking any 2 jugs full of milk wakakakaka as long as i go fast in sepang. i get what u mean but thats the whole reason i came to u guys (sorry again for stealing the topic starter's conversation). i needed something to compute, a 2nd opinion if u will. i needed to understand why toyota ppl dont need to play as hard on suspension as other makes. is it bcoz we dont need so hard to beat them, or is it a big part of the reason toyotas have a hard time to catch vtecs in circuits? im asking too much i know, like asking mountain guru what is the meaning of life LOL.

anyhooo.. if possible i would not prefer to blindly purchase a used set of Cusco or JIC abs unless i go thru the trouble of testing their springs & finding out exactly what the figures are. sure u could find those on the internet, but sometimes u just cant be sure. i know they're very good, i know they're serviceable.. but at the moment i prefer something new which i have initial & total control of the specs built into them. of coz that means a new set of Cusco/JIC/Tein is out of the question hihi.

and yes, my car will only be driven out for track days. comfort be damned.

"lonely drivers dont need no girls!"
-Takeuchi Itsuki

i appreciate ur inputs. thank you so much. i realize that since i cant afford proper spotwelding or rollcage bracers, i will start my first set with spring rates close to what TRD street setup offers. at least it will already be much better than my stock japan levin abs+springs u guys shud go back & discuss feliccw's topic huhu. very sorry, topic starter. peace!

 

[sbirdz]

hmn... as i know, there is once a season so called "CUSCO cargo" falled from skies down to malaysia here... i never saw that much of cusco zero-2 set arrive here at kl...

:)

and I know who are u... as before ur emblem were the LE sideways ones.. right! hahaha!! i so wanna kcik and smack u that time.. hahah!! but FF can do sideways.. just different ways to enter the "drift"...

and actually if hahaha!! There is one fellow big brother here who can control that strenghts of adjustable... He is brother Chinozie... he used a really big deal of suspension there.. and hahah!! toyota also got member use superb hardcore suspension de.. and actually I have in my mind one day to collect one set of JIC back..

i have sit and seen my friend using JIC in his AE101 before.. the feel inside is very uncomfortable.. but when u place all sabelts on and sit on that fabulous full bucked seat... it is like how rocky the car is also... that is a non-stop feeling of roller-coaster ride.. hahaha!! that damn car even HOPS by itselves when he is crawling 20-30kmph on a road which i find they are flat... :) behind u can see the car really like hopping everywhere...

:P i am using tein flex because it gives me alternatives to normal ride, gf ride, mommy aka Gatling 9 my ears ride.. and happy revving ride.. hahah!!! but still... there is always one thing... MY TEIN KENOT masuk track ones... I confirm kenot cucuk those bangla car ones...

ok ok... out of thread already.. :D hahaha!! Shi mi mashe... shi mi mashe..

 

[feliccw]

haha..

thanks for the advise, i do acknowledge that there is alot of money...will take the opurtunity to catch up with u if can