Grid Driving Vs Drift Driving - The Fastest and The Safest Driving Technic

[luqae]

Mind sharing us your understanding about the term 'drifting' and 'understeer'?

i dont really know how to explain cause u have to understand it urself,but ill try to explain in my own words, like one of the poster said it's opposite lock so it means the car understeer rather than over,oversteer means the rear end will come out more than the front right?so making the car spin out of control, if drfting is 100% oversteer how can one drift?cause the purpose of drifting is to make the car slide,so oversteer wont make the car slide right? but understeer will, but then u will have to throw the car 1st and that's oversteer but to maintain the drift it's a combination of oversteer and understeer.But for me personally it's more understeer than oversteer,cause u can only drift on a straight line,and when there's a corner they will adjust it by making the car oversteer either by handbrake or weight shifting..and if the car oversteer the car will spun out and the drift will end.

any argument?just my 0.02

 

[slide_it]

this can go on and on and on ando nondo andoandoand aodn adonad ond oadonadno.......

drifting isnt just abt losing traction. its abt controlling the loss of traction. determining which is faster or not is like debating abt who is perak's menteri besar.

Bump: this can go on and on and on ando nondo andoandoand aodn adonad ond oadonadno.......

drifting isnt just abt losing traction. its abt controlling the loss of traction. determining which is faster or not is like debating abt who is perak's menteri besar.

 

[pocong]

this can go on and on and on ando nondo andoandoand aodn adonad ond oadonadno.......

drifting isnt just abt losing traction. its abt controlling the loss of traction. determining which is faster or not is like debating abt who is perak's menteri besar.

Bump: this can go on and on and on ando nondo andoandoand aodn adonad ond oadonadno.......

drifting isnt just abt losing traction. its abt controlling the loss of traction. determining which is faster or not is like debating abt who is perak's menteri besar.

Hahhahha.... Perak Mentri Besar..... hahaha..... btw no politic issue here.... Perak Mentri Besar...yes it is a laughable situation.... So Perak Mentri Besar is oversteer or understeer?

 

[tony5050]

my reckon

FWD = Stick to rules, law by law, kinda driving

RWD = Do it your way

R34 = Grip?..i doubt so if bhp tweaked. One of the car that i would consider rather hard to adopt and predict.

 

[MrNismo]

i dont really know how to explain cause u have to understand it urself,but ill try to explain in my own words, like one of the poster said it's opposite lock so it means the car understeer rather than over,oversteer means the rear end will come out more than the front right?so making the car spin out of control, if drfting is 100% oversteer how can one drift?cause the purpose of drifting is to make the car slide,so oversteer wont make the car slide right? but understeer will, but then u will have to throw the car 1st and that's oversteer but to maintain the drift it's a combination of oversteer and understeer.But for me personally it's more understeer than oversteer,cause u can only drift on a straight line,and when there's a corner they will adjust it by making the car oversteer either by handbrake or weight shifting..and if the car oversteer the car will spun out and the drift will end.

any argument?just my 0.02

I see. IMHO, I think you got confused with the terminology of understeer and oversteer.

You say: "cause u can only drift on a straight line". Technically speaking, you can't drift in a straight line. When you drift, the path your vehicle follows will always be in an arch. The faster you go, the bigger the arch. Vice versa. If the corner tightens, there are various techniques you can apply, I won't go into details but generally speaking, you need to put in more countersteer.

Now, to define understeer, it means:

1) Your front tyres are having a bigger slip angle compare to the rear tyres - When you're drifting, your rear tyres are constantly spinning and having a bigger slip angle than the front tyres, which is what gives you the 'sideways' feeling seeing a car drifting. Although the front tyres do slip at a minimal angle (technically speaking you won't get 100% grip up front due to caster angle), they do not go into 'lost traction' mode like the rears as that will probably send the car running wide and all hell break loose. If you 'understeer' in a drift, it means the rear wheels are no longer in a slip-angle greater than the front, which gives you the 'straighten' feeling (ie not 'sideways' anymore)

2) Your car is turning less than your steering input - When you're drifting, your car is always turning more than your steering input. Why? That's because you're in opposite lock. Think about it. If you understeer, you turn into the corner fully but your car is only responding little. If you oversteer, you don't have to turn the steering and the car is already rotating towards corner. In fact, you have to turn much much more lesser, till the extent that you need to turn the steering away from the corner (ie counter-steering or opposite lock) in order for the car not to spin. If you 'understeer' in a drift, it means you're no longer in countersteer.

Oversteer is what makes the car slide or drift. Drifting is about holding the car in oversteer. How well you control and hold the vehicle in 'oversteer' mode like it's still in grip mode is what makes the world class top drifters today, where they are doing ridiculous speed while holding the drift angle at a fringe of 'over'-oversteer ie SPIN.

There are some usefull information to aid your understanding better. Do some read-up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer

...oh and if you have more time, do check it out here too:
http://www.drift.com.my

 

[mizunori77]

ah... the sifu has spoken

 

[zthis]

most interesting, but how bout all wheel drifting as we see rally cars dances over snows tarmac ?

Its actually oversteer + understeer coz 4 wheels have minimal grip. Most of the time using momentum drift in corners

 

[BLaCkHoWLiNG]

I see. IMHO, I think you got confused with the terminology of understeer and oversteer.

You say: "cause u can only drift on a straight line". Technically speaking, you can't drift in a straight line. When you drift, the path your vehicle follows will always be in an arch. The faster you go, the bigger the arch. Vice versa. If the corner tightens, there are various techniques you can apply, I won't go into details but generally speaking, you need to put in more countersteer.

Now, to define understeer, it means:

1) Your front tyres are having a bigger slip angle compare to the rear tyres - When you're drifting, your rear tyres are constantly spinning and having a bigger slip angle than the front tyres, which is what gives you the 'sideways' feeling seeing a car drifting. Although the front tyres do slip at a minimal angle (technically speaking you won't get 100% grip up front due to caster angle), they do not go into 'lost traction' mode like the rears as that will probably send the car running wide and all hell break loose. If you 'understeer' in a drift, it means the rear wheels are no longer in a slip-angle greater than the front, which gives you the 'straighten' feeling (ie not 'sideways' anymore)

2) Your car is turning less than your steering input - When you're drifting, your car is always turning more than your steering input. Why? That's because you're in opposite lock. Think about it. If you understeer, you turn into the corner fully but your car is only responding little. If you oversteer, you don't have to turn the steering and the car is already rotating towards corner. In fact, you have to turn much much more lesser, till the extent that you need to turn the steering away from the corner (ie counter-steering or opposite lock) in order for the car not to spin. If you 'understeer' in a drift, it means you're no longer in countersteer.

Oversteer is what makes the car slide or drift. Drifting is about holding the car in oversteer. How well you control and hold the vehicle in 'oversteer' mode like it's still in grip mode is what makes the world class top drifters today, where they are doing ridiculous speed while holding the drift angle at a fringe of 'over'-oversteer ie SPIN.

There are some usefull information to aid your understanding better. Do some read-up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understeer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer

...oh and if you have more time, do check it out here too:
http://www.drift.com.my

amboi! semangat nyeeee!!! BWAHAHAHAH ... The true sifu has spoken.. u all better don mess with him.. else he potong u.. be it / tak kira u pocong ke manusia..

MrNismo's post quote "MATI KO! " bwahwahawhawhw

 

[mizunori77]

when u took that pic? wakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak...

btw, bumped into Mr N yesterday at AFOS. he was leading in the gymkhana at the end of round 2. i wonder if he won coz i didn't see him after that. anyone got any idea if he won all 4 rounds?

 

[TitanRev]

Kakakakaka~~BH thanks for the pic....

MrNismo look really funny in that pic...feel like the head is bigger than the body..a bit like cartoon...Saw his drifting before really nice...

 

[luqae]

i wont disagree with u nismo,i have my point of view.
and i was wrong a lil cause drfiting u mean is those ppl who drift at competiton or shows, and yeay they are all about who can go the most sideways with the most smoke so most tend to go sideways with maximum oversteer.
the way i put it is about when drifting at touge and such.

 

[mizunori77]

i wont disagree with u nismo,i have my point of view.
and i was wrong a lil cause drfiting u mean is those ppl who drift at competiton or shows, and yeay they are all about who can go the most sideways with the most smoke so most tend to go sideways with maximum oversteer.
the way i put it is about when drifting at touge and such.

erm... drifting is drifting ma... doesn't matter if its competition or road shows or what... the same rules apply in initiating and holding the drift in competition or road shows... btw if during touge, the driver understeers, he will either be crashing into the mountain or crashing into the ravine below so i don't really understand what you mean by drifting with understeer during touge...

 

[luqae]

so my understanding is diff from yours den,no need to argue it's one perception.
if u think its oversteer it's, for me i have my own opinion. no disrespect mizunori =D,

owh and zthis,in rally drifting is a rare word, they prefer to call it powerslide. and one of the hardest thing is a 4wd drifting except if ur ken block with a 600hp car that is... and if u c those rally vid the only time when they powerslide are on gravel and on snow,rarely on tarmac.

Bump: so my understanding is diff from yours den,no need to argue it's one perception.
if u think its oversteer it's, for me i have my own opinion. no disrespect mizunori =D,

owh and zthis,in rally drifting is a rare word, they prefer to call it powerslide. and one of the hardest thing is a 4wd drifting except if ur ken block with a 600hp car that is... and if u c those rally vid the only time when they powerslide are on gravel and on snow,rarely on tarmac.