Why use MP3s to play in the car audio system..?

raj2519

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Hi guys,

I'm new to Zerotohundred..I just wondering why is it a lot of people out there spend a lot of their money buying the most advanced audio system for the beloved cars but end of the day listen to songs in MP3 format..Not forgetting the fact that burning MP3 format songs into audio CDs is actually equivalent to directly playing MP3s in your car audio..I'm asking this question in general out of curiosity..I'm sorry if I offended anyone but thats not my intention..Thank you..:idea:
 

arturo

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welcome welcome

read yr other post on X-overs, amps n MP3 SQ...good write up...should compose something like a FAQ n sticky it up so any ICE-ers can read up n learn some basics(i learnt some i did)

anyway, i think y most ppl prefer mp3 to digital audio cds is cos mp3s are compact and u can have a single cd with 200-300 songs. i used to like cds but found it a hassle to keep changing discs(even with a changer u still have a very limited choice of songs)...think of different moods..if bringing a chick in the car...u want il divo playing softly..while racing home on the hiway, somehing like pitbull or tiesto blasting loudly....and while bringing yr colleaques/ customers out for lunch, u want something like plain white tees n katherine mcphee playing...with mp3s, u have that choice at the fingertips...

now with usb able players, the choice u have is even more...i cant wait to get my usb able headunit...:biggrin:
 

zac

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Take my personal experience for example, i downloaded hi quality mp3 from internet and burned it into audio cd format, like 18 songs in a cd? the sound quality is different... played directly by usb or mp3 cd... arg... terrible... all the details gone... there are free software available to enhance mp3 format while converting it into audio cd format... but i only did few piece for song that i can't find... most of my cd are ori... hoho... ori so much better... listen to noise will only piss me off but listen to MUSIC can control my temper...:burnout:
 

arturo

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haha zac...u need to keep more il divo cds in yr car. listen aredy want to sleep!

mp3 to audio cd can improve the sq?i know professional sound studios have that software...but dint know personal users also have...can share the name? can go try out this weekend hehhe

whats the bitrate u download? my minimum is 192...anything below 192 i dun touch. but wierd leh...i d/l mp3s all no noise. but of cos ori audio cds waaaaay clearer...the trebles n mids all very clearly seperated...mp3s...everything starts to get jumbled up when u turn up a little louder(my own ears say la...maybe my speakers not so good thats y heheheh)
 

xMika

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Use 320kpbs loh ... the best for mp3 already .. but i only play original keke ... WAV format is another alternative if your cd player can support .. mine can
 

raj2519

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Ok..guys thanks for all your comments..and I have a few answers for a few questions which rised up here..Like what member Arturo asked..Well if you want to download MP3s from the internet, MP3s that has the higher bitrate should have the best sounding capability..But when it comes to 'bitrate' there are 2 types..1 type is called CBR ( Constant BitRate ) and VBR ( Variable BitRate )..As the name suggests CBR which has a fixed bitrate for a music file..Whereas VBR, its bitrate flatuates as the song play..The purpose of having these 2 types of bitrate format is for the users to choose whether the want to save their precious hard disk space ( CBR ) or they want quality ( VBR )..Thats about it..

Another question that Arthuro asked was about the studios that use professional software to improve mp3 to CD quality..Telling you truthfully Arthuro so far no studios use these software for this purpose..Because I as a sound engineer never seen them do this besides me..A lot of sound engineer that I have met never even went close of trying it..Maybe you might know a few who I dont know..But dont worry I will tell the names of the softwares..You can actually use Cubase , WaveLab, Nuendo, or ProTools..But the problem is in order for you to use this software you need to have a hardware studio sound card like M-Audio which can cost you like RM2000 or studio console that comes with a soundcard built-in like DigiDesign which can cost you like RM8000..I know the price and name because I have worked on them..Buying them is not the big deal for those who have the cash but searching and buying the right plugins to use them is the big deal..Without plugins this software including the soundcard are useless..Lets say if someone has all this but without the right knowlegde on sound engineering is useless too..I'm telling you this based on my experience last time trying to play with these softwares when I knew nuts about sound engineering..I basically ended making MP3 sound worst then they already are..

And another reason why studio sound engineers try their level best not to listen MP3s is because since all MP3s clip, they can actually spoil their studio monitors..Studio monitors are speakers that are built to handle clipping and they do not 'freqency fold' which means one frequency band 'overtake' the other frequency band..i think many of us would have came across this situation..When you playing a song in your car or computer speakers..when you put the volume low you could actually here the bass but as you increase louder and louder the midrange and highs becomes louder than the bass..so what usually we do is we increase the bass in the equalizer so that the bass can be heard at high volumes and vice versa..This is what we call frequency folding..The speakers that we are listening the music limits the one band of frequency to allow the other band of frequencies to rise up..Studio monitors are built to eliminate this problem because when it comes to sound production and sound engineering frequency folding problem is a No No..Even studio monitors which are built to handle these sort of problem can still spoil if MP3 are played overtime on through them just imagine your car speakers..

Anyways I understand why we all download MP3s..sometimes not all the songs in an original CD is nice..we might like maybe 1 or 2 songs and for that 1 or 2 songs we have to spend a lot of cash..Since we can download, we might as well just download it..end of the day we save space and cash..I know this because I too download songs..But the result is that MP3s are damaging to our speakers due to its overloading of frequency signals ( CLIP )..So if you need help on cleaning them, pm and I'll help you..Just remember one thing even some original CDs clip..Like the latest Pitbull and Usher-Raymond vs Raymond which I bought also Clips because I have checked it..Thats why I prefer checking the songs first even its an original CD and cleaning them before re-burning them into a new CD..At least my original CD stays brand-new condition..

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

For reference you can check out from my blog at http://raj-mastering.vox.com and click on the icon that says 'For Zerotohundred viewing'..you will find two song files :

1. Sexy Chick-Cleaned
2. Secy Chick-MP3

Play the both songs and you will find out that the Cleaned version of the song Sexy Chick will sound titer and smoother than the MP3 version. What i've done is that i've removed the DC offset in the MP3 and lowered its volume to -0.1 dB so that the song got more 'room' to breath when its volume is pushed louder.
 
Last edited:

Areoulz

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mp3 work just fine for me. plus with iPod capable players, thousand songs just a couple jogged away. whether it by artist, album, genre or just personal favorites. And I don't want my glove box turn into mini jukebox just to store my the entire CD's collections.

Unlike a dog or cat (or even batman) with ultra hearing sensitivity, normal 128kbps mp3's work fine with my human ear..

---------- Post added at 11:16 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------

mp3 work just fine for me. plus with iPod capable players, thousand songs just a couple jogged away. whether it by artist, album, genre or just personal favorites. And I don't want my glove box turn into mini jukebox just to store my the entire CD's collections.

Unlike a dog or cat (or even batman) with ultra hearing sensitivity, normal 128kbps mp3's work fine with my human ear..
 

gt6334a

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in one word, convenience.

i don't just listen to pristine audiophile recorded stuff.. i have lectures and shows downloaded from itunes that i listen to.. radio shows from US (NPR stuff) or seminars..

on the music side, i guess my current system is either not able to resolve the differences or i'm just not picky anymore.. :) i used to listen purely on vinyl (found the CD sound too harsh, yeah isn't it ironic... :biggrin: ) on my home audio stuff but i have that up more than a decade ago..
 

hardBass4u

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Original CD VS MP3= can feel the different even judge by normal human ears.:biggrin:
For me, I will get MP3 for those new songs and once confirm for the song I like, I definitely will seek for original CD...:love:
 

wfhan

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err... so.. does this mean all current digital music players/device, or so call mp3 player and ipods produces inferior quality sound output if compare to old-school CDplayer/CDwalkman ?
Or is it current technology of the sound processing by these digital player is getting more and more advanced to chase-up close to a proper piece of audio device ?
noob here... correct me if i am wrong..
:)
 

Zenn

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its more about software than hardware, the music source more than the device.
 

[PIMPIN]

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Dude, if the file is mp3 then burning it as an audio cd is not going to make a difference. The fact that it's an mp3 even if its 320kbps means it's already a compromise. If you were really into music, wouldn't your music collection be in FLAC/lossless formats?

Plus, it's just something to listen to while you drive. If you can hear the music above the sound of your exhaust that is. :driver:
 

arturo

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for some audiophiles, every beat note counts! heheheh for the avg user...i think MP3s are ok...just a case of quantity vs quality but i agree that even self encoded 192kbps or even 320kbps mp3s cant compare to the SQ of an original CD. there are certain notes esp the mids- highs that are very clearly shaper when heard from a CD compared to mp3s but tat was in a fren's iasca competition car la...own car cant hear any difference at all hehehe. try buying a piano only cd n listen then encode into mp3 and listen. if u listen properly u can hear the difference. sounds like its a little muted(like somebody put a thin curtain between the piano and u) on the mp3.

easiest way to understand compression and quality is youtube. 480hd is the clearest but the longest to load cos of the least amount of compression....

the logic of mp3 is it encodes the raw format from a cd. and in compression, it will get rid of much info. the more compression, the smaller the file and more info gone(it says compression but mp3 encoding compression works by removing sequential similar data). it sort of works this way... we all know data is stored in binary format in 1s and 0s. the raw cd audio will get broken down into a sort of binary format and then the encoding software will then try to compare sequential notes. lets say at 1.05 - 1.06minutes, the singer sings a note but it fluctuates ever so slightly. it gets converted to 1000101000100101001010(this is random - IT guys pls dont go calculate the binary value here hehehe). the software then will start compressing it by saying any 4 zeros in a row should be compressed into a 11 which sounds like 0000 so now the 1.05 - 1.06 minutes will become 1111011100101001010(once again pls dont calculate the binary value as this is just to give an idea to how it sort of works) . that is a very basic understanding of how compression works. of course there are very very complex algorithms and it isnt as simple as searching for 0000 and changing it to 11 everytime it happens. it will also need to depend on the previous and following notes and the notes before the following and previous notes. it will only change 0000 to 11 IF very specific criterias are in place. thats why some encoders can compress more and still retain a higher quality.

when MP3s first came out(my first mp3 was thupthumping - still remember?) it sounded like a record and was about 6mb. i was excited cos i could now start storing songs on my pc(i think it was a 200mb HD hahahahah) nowadays mp3s can be as small as 1.5mb for a 3+min song with very aggresive encoding but still sound better than that thupthumping i first downloaded. the norm nowadays would be to go 192kbps and maybe add VBR for further compression and this would be about 5-7mb for a 4min+ song. acceptable size and quality in my opinion.compression tech will keep on increasing the quality of SQ for MP3s(at the same bit rate for comparison), but in the end, nothing can beat a CD. (depends on yr ICE setup of cos):biggrin:
 

[PIMPIN]

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for some audiophiles, every beat note counts! heheheh for the avg user...i think MP3s are ok...just a case of quantity vs quality but i agree that even self encoded 192kbps or even 320kbps mp3s cant compare to the SQ of an original CD. there are certain notes esp the mids- highs that are very clearly shaper when heard from a CD compared to mp3s but tat was in a fren's iasca competition car la...own car cant hear any difference at all hehehe. try buying a piano only cd n listen then encode into mp3 and listen. if u listen properly u can hear the difference. sounds like its a little muted(like somebody put a thin curtain between the piano and u) on the mp3.

easiest way to understand compression and quality is youtube. 480hd is the clearest but the longest to load cos of the least amount of compression....

the logic of mp3 is it encodes the raw format from a cd. and in compression, it will get rid of much info. the more compression, the smaller the file and more info gone(it says compression but mp3 encoding compression works by removing sequential similar data). it sort of works this way... we all know data is stored in binary format in 1s and 0s. the raw cd audio will get broken down into a sort of binary format and then the encoding software will then try to compare sequential notes. lets say at 1.05 - 1.06minutes, the singer sings a note but it fluctuates ever so slightly. it gets converted to 1000101000100101001010(this is random - IT guys pls dont go calculate the binary value here hehehe). the software then will start compressing it by saying any 4 zeros in a row should be compressed into a 11 which sounds like 0000 so now the 1.05 - 1.06 minutes will become 1111011100101001010(once again pls dont calculate the binary value as this is just to give an idea to how it sort of works) . that is a very basic understanding of how compression works. of course there are very very complex algorithms and it isnt as simple as searching for 0000 and changing it to 11 everytime it happens. it will also need to depend on the previous and following notes and the notes before the following and previous notes. it will only change 0000 to 11 IF very specific criterias are in place. thats why some encoders can compress more and still retain a higher quality.

when MP3s first came out(my first mp3 was thupthumping - still remember?) it sounded like a record and was about 6mb. i was excited cos i could now start storing songs on my pc(i think it was a 200mb HD hahahahah) nowadays mp3s can be as small as 1.5mb for a 3+min song with very aggresive encoding but still sound better than that thupthumping i first downloaded. the norm nowadays would be to go 192kbps and maybe add VBR for further compression and this would be about 5-7mb for a 4min+ song. acceptable size and quality in my opinion.compression tech will keep on increasing the quality of SQ for MP3s(at the same bit rate for comparison), but in the end, nothing can beat a CD. (depends on yr ICE setup of cos):biggrin:
I know what you are referring to and I know of the disadvantages of the mp3 format as opposed to lossless formats but my point is that since a song is already in mp3 format, the damage is done - going back and forth between formats or burning as audio CD really doesn't make any difference. If you were an audiophile (I'm not), your music collection wouldn't even be in mp3 format to begin would it?

What's your current audio setup?
 

arturo

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i'm no audiophile la.playing ICE is extremely expensive. only running a set of 6.5" comps, an old mp3 capable HU and an 8" active sub. wanted the adire shiva but couldnt afford it lolz...besides, cant hardly hear a difference in what audiophiles say is sharp n muted. i'm just stating the pros n cons of mp3 n how the logic of compression works so ppl understand to get qty...u've gotta sacrifice quality. i guess i'm a technophile?

IASCA competitors only use CDs and never mp3 and yah i agree...true audiophiles wont touch mp3s but for the avg joe like me with a chapalang audio setup...mp3 is ok la hahahha steps above FM radio anyways :rofl:

actualy on going back n forth...i've heard IT guys saying that if u take a CD, encode it into mp3, then convert back into CD format then take that CCD format and re-encoding it back into mp3, there will be more audio quality loss...i havent tried it out as the only way was to compare the waveform of pre-2nd encoding and 1st round encoding. way too technical for me anyway. if any IT guys can confirm this, i'd have one less question active in my head hehehe
 

[PIMPIN]

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i'm no audiophile la.playing ICE is extremely expensive. only running a set of 6.5" comps, an old mp3 capable HU and an 8" active sub. wanted the adire shiva but couldnt afford it lolz...besides, cant hardly hear a difference in what audiophiles say is sharp n muted. i'm just stating the pros n cons of mp3 n how the logic of compression works so ppl understand to get qty...u've gotta sacrifice quality. i guess i'm a technophile?

IASCA competitors only use CDs and never mp3 and yah i agree...true audiophiles wont touch mp3s but for the avg joe like me with a chapalang audio setup...mp3 is ok la hahahha steps above FM radio anyways :rofl:

actualy on going back n forth...i've heard IT guys saying that if u take a CD, encode it into mp3, then convert back into CD format then take that CCD format and re-encoding it back into mp3, there will be more audio quality loss...i havent tried it out as the only way was to compare the waveform of pre-2nd encoding and 1st round encoding. way too technical for me anyway. if any IT guys can confirm this, i'd have one less question active in my head hehehe
Yes, I agree with everything you've said except that the CDs that audiophiles aren't just the normal CDs we buy at the music shops. But as for me, I do enjoy music but I'm not into this whole audiophile scene where people describe sounds in such precise and seemingly technical terms.

When I'm in the car, I simply play music via the ipod connector so my most of my mp3s are 320kbps but on my PC I do have albums in the 900+kbps range up to 1Mbps. If you get your music from HD Tracks their songs bit rate are 2.5Mbps-2.9Mbps range but I don't buy music from them; just tried it once.

My requirements were simple. I had to be able to listen to music even at speeds in excess of 200km/h which is ridiculously loud in a GTR. I guess you could put together a better system at a better price but mine involved a lot of custom work but so far its lasted two years of blasting music and pretty much can't tell difference between various mp3 bitrates when your kidneys are vibrating due to the bass lol
 

arturo

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2.5-2.9mbps! WOW! ~20MB+ per 3minute audio file? i guess with storage capacity increasing it shouldnt be a problem. just wondering are there any USB HU nowadays that can accept portable HDs? last i checked the USB able HUs only accept USB drives n cant read the multi folders of a HD(of cos will dedicate the HD to only store MP3s...) i think i have one of those sound test CDs...its got an assortment of sounds like glass breaking, airplane taking off, drums. all as seperate tracks. i totally have no idea where that CD came from lol

how is your midbass condition? mine is about 4 years and is started to tear at the rubber surround about a year ago...i guess its from the heat of parking constantly under the sun.

even 180kmh all i hear is the tyres,the wind, the exhaust and the engine screaming(maybe some music but its distant like over the hill) then when i stop by at the rest stop for a pee i find the volume is TOO loud LOLZ. thats how un-soundproof my car is! mind sharing what sort of soundproofing u've done? dynamat all over?
 

Random Post Every 5 Minutes

I was there in the Restaurant opposite Summit , near the Shell
Parked my car there , then about 50 meters away ,
Could not sit outside because of Rain , so no chance to see the car
Lucky i set my radiostar vibration level to sensitive
As soon as i got to my car , one fella was running with his motorbike.
Thank god got shock sensors to detect em when he was trying to break in
Just for my Autogauge Defi look alike ka ?
Radiostar u rock.. guys better get any alarm that got shock sensor.. feel safer
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