heel and toe driving, is it faster?

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c32b

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May 25, 2011
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Recently I read with interest some threads in a local car forum regarding heel and toe downshifting technique. There was quite a bit of controversy about whether the technique was required.

Some said that the heel and toe wasn't really useful and drivers not using heel & toe still got superb times, won competitions thereby proving that heel and toe wasn't necessary.

Yet others feel that heel & toe is necessary not only to prolong transmission life but actually allows a smoother drive and thus leads to faster times when done properly. This is in agreement with traditional driving technique literature.

Just wondering what the drivers here think
 

mADmAN

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both of school of thoughts is actually correct....both have pros and cons

but akuma did mention to me something very very true... his track kaki friend told him... "heel and toe isnt that important and dont worry too much about it.... ur braking is more important"

so yeah...once u get ur braking right, then heel and toe is fine.

if u look at this video ull notice that the heel n toe is pretty much non-existent...but braking etc was all good and he managed to get a blazing 2.28 in SIC

YouTube - ‪Kazama FD2R ZTH Time To Attack Sepang Round 3‬‏
 
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keeltha

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Braking is another thing tho...

Heel toe should be done in as 2nd nature. Not to upset the car balance which is crucial when the car on its grip limit. I guess theoritically it is faster maybe 0.xxxs for certain corner ?

Also cause less burden to the drivetrain which good for full race.

With new technology this going to become ancient skill...

ALL just my guessing... Apologize in advance if I guess it wrongly (noob here) :driver:
 

Slowboy

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Jan 14, 2011
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in my opinion, the technique during heel and toe is the most important, it should be not over rev during doing it. As you could hear certain guys hit the throttle paddle over rev, it should be just sufficient.

Also it will protect your gear syncro
 

kumar22mostwanted

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i think heel and toe not so important already lah like said earlier better to focus more effort on the braking to get it spot on coz nowdays i see with all the modern engine management also when downshift or upshift can hold the rev long enough to shift even when release throttle also :adore:
 

Izso

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I think Heel-Toe is good for cars that need to be revved all the time. Try driving a standard campro without heel-toe and you'll know what I mean. Gotta keep the revs high otherwise the car just loses all the momentum and you're back to square one. Just have to keep those revs in the 3k++ range la

If you've got a crazy torquey engine then no point heel-toe I guess. Power in.. power out.. no loss.
 

c32b

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YYC: it will soon become a dinosaur technique
madman: just wondering, if the braking is correct, driver is the same and does heel toe vs doesnt do heel toe, which will b faster?
keeltha: I remember reading somewhere that it was measured as being faster. the problem is that the drivers used to determine this were pro drivers. it could be that it may be very subjective based on amateur drivers
 

keeltha

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1st thing to learn when u on the track are Racing line which consist of: Braking, Apex, Accelerating and gear choice.

Heel & Toe is not a thing to concentrate on becoz u will do it subconsciously. Is like you dont need to think how much you need to turn the steering wheel.

Heel Toe is not a magic to make you faster but to Pro it is good skill to maintain the car balance.
 

aalto

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One other aspect of heel&toe that people overlook is eliminating "shift lock" which occurs during hard braking/downshifting. It doesn't really occur during light braking/downshifting.

Theres a lot of techniques of going fast around a track, one method doesn't necessarily mean good laptimes. Thats where driver skill comes into play. Its up to the driver to determine which technique to use under which situation.

Exp: In races different line are used for overtaking/attacks, and different ones for defending positions/ preserving tires...etc
In qualifying laps or time attacks, different lines/techniques are used to get the best times.

I could bable on...& on.....but I think you get what I'm trying to say :biggrin:
 

c32b

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since its the season for disclaimers, here is mine: i'm an occasional trackie so my pbox data is next to pointless since line consistency blah blah is non-existent with the lack of practice. :biggrin:

There were however interesting data points from the log which showed one of the risks of heel and toe. These come especially when the blipping is done where there is a tendency of poorly done heel and toe that brake pressure is reduced due a portion of force being directed to blipping of throttle.

I feel the action, even with a slight over blip, helps to smoothen the downshift transition. Overall, I'd do it. The benefit of reducing gearshift shock to the drivetrain and better traction are huge plus points I can't ignore. Whether i'm a good enough driver to wring out these benefits, only the times will tell.

I'd also like to share an experience of mine. When I complained of clutch slip to a certain well known workshop, the famous owner-mechanic-driver (X) asked me to show him how I drove to determine if it was clutch slip or driver error as he was convinced there was no such device as CDV (clutch delay valve) which I claimed to be causing clutch slip at high rpm quick shifting. As most owners of my ride will know, the CDV is actually present. X then claimed I was reading too many forums and shouldnt believe everything I read as it was probably a US issue but not applicable for JDM cars like mine.

I then drove the car and did my usual shifting albeit with a bit of messy shifting as I was still very new to the car (<3mths). I was then heavily criticized by X and then was asked by X if he could drive to show me the "way to drive". What I saw surprised me as when X upshifted at high rpm, he would ease off the clutch rather slowly thereby using the clutch much more than I did.

The downshifting was even more of a shocker when he began clutching in, dropping gear, blipping then slowly letting out the clutch (edit: he kind of slips the clutch as the revs dip to make the shift smooth) so the rpm dropped smoothly with the clutch release. That seemed more a clutch slip technique than the heel toe I knew which required an accurate blip with quick release of the clutch.

The classic moment came when we stopped and he told me that he felt no CDV present, he said AP2 clutches usually lasted <1 yr due to enthusiastic driving (my stock clutch lasted 3.25 yrs) and that my driving was ridiculously damaging to the transmission components so if I continued this way, I would end up with a broken transmission in <1 yr. It has been 3.5 yrs now and my transmission is problem free except for a 10 dollar gearshifter bushing. A Used Oil Analysis of my gearbox and rear differential fluid at the 2.5 yr mark showed minimal traces of metal particles thus proving my transmission was in excellent condition.My gearbox was opened up and visual inspection proved the same.

Although we could attribute it to many reasons but I've heel and toed or rev matched every single day of driving my car and I truly believe its helped keep rev mismatch wear to a minimum. It took a while to get used to the ratios but its pretty much second nature and smooth about 90% of the time. I related and demonstrated how I downshifted to a few qualified driving instructors and they have validated my heel toe as proper technique.

I do recommend it to all drivers. Sadly, with the advent of clutchless paddle shifter boxes with auto blipping, it seems likely the heel toe may soon go the way of the dinosaur. Nevertheless, for those who enjoy driving manuals know that a heel toe can be both fun and beneficial when performed correctly
 
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keeltha

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@c32b

Thx for sharing your story bro, dont worry I am driving a dinosaur as well ROFL

Yeah, I do release the clutch progressively too.

Happy driving :driver:

Edit: hold on u mean u still using ur old style or Mr. X style ?
 
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c32b

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Keeltha: still using my old style. Didn't cause me any problems and I'm comfortable with it so stuck with it. Releasing quickly and progressively is fine but he really sort of slipped the clutch as revs dipped which was rather different.
 

D7zul

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i saw lots of pro drivers use the heel toe style of driving (on the net & TV of coz.. hehe)

from what i understand, they don't want the rpm to drop becoz low rpm means low power..

so, they use that style to maintain high rpm..

if the rpm drop, it takes a fraction of a second to get back high rpm..

:biggrin:
 

c32b

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May 25, 2011
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Keeltha: paddleshifter is of course more accurate and definitely faster as it takes the human error out of the equation. I guess only nostalgic dinosaurs like me will prefer manual haha
 

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