Adding 2T as petrol additives...
- Thread starter tigershark1976
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guys it is difficult to get a FD rated clean synthetic 2T oil...shell advance the most expensive 1 also Fc only and it is a semi synthetic....any recommendation for better 2T oil so that it burns cleaner?
last time when im riding bike,the more the bike smoke the more i like..keep looking back when rev the bike lol
now damn kao annoying when saw bike with smokeHeard lots of rotary owner doing that but never heard piston engine owner doing so, the lubricating effect sounds reasonable, but will it clog the fuel rail or leave more carbon deposit in the engine?
When putting 2T, need to beware of the flash point of the product. I put a Yamaha 2T tank onto my car and direct inject 2T into my engine combustion chamber. Normal 2T or even 10w30 engine oil are ok. But when put Motul 800, thick carbon formed and CEL popped up and said system too rich (means fuel not fully burned). But I rarely heard any Malaysian is doing this stand alone tank deal. Most just pour into their fuel tank. In this way, 250ml or Motul 800 for 60L of fuel is still safe. Normal syntactic 2T (RM2x-3x per L) can put up to 350ml/60L without a single problem. I'm now having Royal purple 0w20 in the 2T tank while engine oil is RE-A Super G 10w40. Anyway, FYI, there is a product called RCL from Torco. The purpose is about the same but it was made for car use.
For the performance, the lubrication only helps to make the engine not to struggle for going up high rpm (can hear the sound when revving). HP or torque or even FC wise, maybe got a little bit improvement but not worth to mention
For the ashless deal, I don't wanna argue much. Just put 1 drop or 2T onto aluminum foil and cook it on your kitchen stove till it burnt off. You will know if the claim is true.
What I reckon is, after use premix (2T) for let's say 10k-20k km, should stop for 1 tank and put BG44k to clean up the system (maybe the O2 sensor(s) too). I did open my fuel pump assembly and found a little bit sludge on the fuel filter when putting 2T into fuel tank for too long without cleaning. Normal car, should replace the fuel filter earlier than scheduled.
For the performance, the lubrication only helps to make the engine not to struggle for going up high rpm (can hear the sound when revving). HP or torque or even FC wise, maybe got a little bit improvement but not worth to mention
For the ashless deal, I don't wanna argue much. Just put 1 drop or 2T onto aluminum foil and cook it on your kitchen stove till it burnt off. You will know if the claim is true.
What I reckon is, after use premix (2T) for let's say 10k-20k km, should stop for 1 tank and put BG44k to clean up the system (maybe the O2 sensor(s) too). I did open my fuel pump assembly and found a little bit sludge on the fuel filter when putting 2T into fuel tank for too long without cleaning. Normal car, should replace the fuel filter earlier than scheduled.
dun buy shell, in fact, dun find 2T frm any petrol kiosk. you are wasting your time. They dont sell good & cheap 2T. like u said, the most they sell Jaso FC rated 2T only. Not as clean as Jaso FD/ TCW3.
i just got 2 bottle of Penzoil TCW3 2T from JB, its green in colour, cost me RM 24 each bottle (1L). u need to go those large motorbike servicing shop or motorbike sparepart shop to find.
---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------
carbon will built up if you are using those cheap mineral 2T. thats Y u must use Jaso FD/ TCW3 rated 2T oil. Such 2T is only only providing additional lubricant to your piston. in fact, it will clean your piston as well... according to some forumers in BITOG, many aftermarket petrol additive/ injector cleaner are using high graded 2T oil. the manufacturer simply repack and sell it is sky high price...
As for cloging up the fuel rail, they should not happen, at ratio above 1:100, the 2T/petrol mixture already very watery. if you follow the instruction and mist it above 1:400 ratio. The 2T content is so little that it should not caused any problem to your fuel rail. In fact, once the 2T is mixed with petrol, it will fully disolved and will not sink at the bottle even if you left the mixtures for months.
Like i keep saying, so long if you dont overdose and maintain it above 1:400 ratio, there will be no issue.
---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:00 PM ----------
When putting 2T, need to beware of the flash point of the product. I put a Yamaha 2T tank onto my car and direct inject 2T into my engine combustion chamber. Normal 2T or even 10w30 engine oil are ok. But when put Motul 800, thick carbon formed and CEL popped up and said system too rich (means fuel not fully burned). But I rarely heard any Malaysian is doing this stand alone tank deal. Most just pour into their fuel tank. In this way, 250ml or Motul 800 for 60L of fuel is still safe. Normal syntactic 2T (RM2x-3x per L) can put up to 350ml/60L without a single problem. I'm now having Royal purple 0w20 in the 2T tank while engine oil is RE-A Super G 10w40. Anyway, FYI, there is a product called RCL from Torco. The purpose is about the same but it was made for car use.
For the performance, the lubrication only helps to make the engine not to struggle for going up high rpm (can hear the sound when revving). HP or torque or even FC wise, maybe got a little bit improvement but not worth to mention
For the ashless deal, I don't wanna argue much. Just put 1 drop or 2T onto aluminum foil and cook it on your kitchen stove till it burnt off. You will know if the claim is true.
What I reckon is, after use premix (2T) for let's say 10k-20k km, should stop for 1 tank and put BG44k to clean up the system (maybe the O2 sensor(s) too). I did open my fuel pump assembly and found a little bit sludge on the fuel filter when putting 2T into fuel tank for too long without cleaning. Normal car, should replace the fuel filter earlier than scheduled.
bro, care to share more info on your 2T mixture into your car? wat car are you using and you mix at what ratio usually? As for your statement of "For the ashless deal, I don't wanna argue much", what does it means? are you saying that there is no diff in good quality 2T and cheap 2T in terms of carbon built up? Im pretty new in mixing 2T in car and wish to undestand more...
From what i have sourced from the "rempit forum" (), some 2Ts are capable of cleaning up the combustion chamber... An example to that is Maxoil TCW3 2 Cycle/Outboard Oil..... I have never tried it out myself though coz cant find one at my place... Outboard oils (used in 2 stroke motorboat engine) tends to clean up the combustion chamber better, but whether it is suitable for higher revving automotive engines is still an issue....
Another thing to note is the price of the 2T oils itself.... A normal fully synthetic 2T with TCW3 and JASO FD might cost somewhere near RM40... even a mineral one from Motul ( which I'm currently using on my second wife) is around mid 20 bucks.... Thus, a good 2T oil might be more expensive than what most of us would expect...
), some 2Ts are capable of cleaning up the combustion chamber... An example to that is Maxoil TCW3 2 Cycle/Outboard Oil..... I have never tried it out myself though coz cant find one at my place... Outboard oils (used in 2 stroke motorboat engine) tends to clean up the combustion chamber better, but whether it is suitable for higher revving automotive engines is still an issue....Another thing to note is the price of the 2T oils itself.... A normal fully synthetic 2T with TCW3 and JASO FD might cost somewhere near RM40... even a mineral one from Motul ( which I'm currently using on my second wife) is around mid 20 bucks.... Thus, a good 2T oil might be more expensive than what most of us would expect...
From what i have sourced from the "rempit forum" (
Another thing to note is the price of the 2T oils itself.... A normal fully synthetic 2T with TCW3 and JASO FD might cost somewhere near RM40... even a mineral one from Motul ( which I'm currently using on my second wife) is around mid 20 bucks.... Thus, a good 2T oil might be more expensive than what most of us would expect...
yap bro. its not easy to find any cheap TCW3 rated outboard oil... i go around my hometown, yong peng and none (at least 8 motor shop) and none of them is selling anything more than Jaso FD rated oil, not to mentioned TCW3 rated oil..
I asked my friend to lookout for me from KL... result is similar, most motor shop owner will tell u, "rich plp drive car, poor people ride motor, how do they afford such expensive oil?"
After some time searching, I finally found penzoil TCW3 rated outboard oil in JB. Think bcos many singaporean big bike service their bike there so there are demand for better oil. Thus, it is easier to see higher grade oil there and the price is quite reasonable at RM20 to RM30... for example, the same shop i bought the penzoil marine is also selling castrol 2T with Jaso FD rated at RM25/L. If you happen to stay at JB, try to find from the bigger motorbike shop, the usually carry premium 2T oil there...
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For rotary engine cars, the act of mixing 2T oil to the petrol is called "Premix".
For normal piston engines, it is called "Upper Cylinder Lubricant".
An alternative to 2T oil as a "Premix" or "Upper Cylinder Lubricant" is Marvel Mystery Oil.
You can buy it from ACE Hardware Store.
For normal piston engines, it is called "Upper Cylinder Lubricant".
An alternative to 2T oil as a "Premix" or "Upper Cylinder Lubricant" is Marvel Mystery Oil.
You can buy it from ACE Hardware Store.
For rotary engine cars, the act of mixing 2T oil to the petrol is called "Premix".
For normal piston engines, it is called "Upper Cylinder Lubricant".
An alternative to 2T oil as a "Premix" or "Upper Cylinder Lubricant" is Marvel Mystery Oil.
You can buy it from ACE Hardware Store.
Hey bro, thanks for your pm and reply!!! i hv been searching MMO around for a long time... its highly recomended in BITOG. Will try to get a bottle from ACE hardware. BTW, can share how much is it per bottle?
My advice is this.
For 1st timers, best to buy the 4-pack ONE Shot Treatment.
After finish, keep the bottles.
Then go buy the big MMO bottle which is 32 oz (RM22.50) and
then pour around 4oz to 6oz into the smaller ONE Shot Treatment bottle.
I've already measured on the smaller bottle for 4oz to 6oz. Please see the photo below as reference:
Ideally the ratio is 6oz. to 60 Liters of petrol. But 4oz. is also good enuff.
At one period in time, the big bottle (32oz) of MMO was sold out everywhere. It seems there was a high demand for the big bottle. So far, I found 2 ACE Hardware store with plenty of stock for the big bottles and they are the IKANO and IOI Puchong (new wing) branches.
For 1st timers, best to buy the 4-pack ONE Shot Treatment.
After finish, keep the bottles.
Then go buy the big MMO bottle which is 32 oz (RM22.50) and
then pour around 4oz to 6oz into the smaller ONE Shot Treatment bottle.
I've already measured on the smaller bottle for 4oz to 6oz. Please see the photo below as reference:
Ideally the ratio is 6oz. to 60 Liters of petrol. But 4oz. is also good enuff.
At one period in time, the big bottle (32oz) of MMO was sold out everywhere. It seems there was a high demand for the big bottle. So far, I found 2 ACE Hardware store with plenty of stock for the big bottles and they are the IKANO and IOI Puchong (new wing) branches.
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i have done it, with my oldskool bike gsxr750 and my 1st model satria. But i only use QuickSilver outboard 2T bcoz it has TCW3. Sometimes ago i ride my 2stroke cub chai i use this 2T, when time to svc i'm little bit surprise bcoz the head block is very clean..no carbon at all...that's why i pour some into my car n bike petrol tank..u will feel a little bit diffrent after that.. the fc...
for my car i full tank at BHP Jenjarom Kuala Langat travel to Johor Baharu WITHOUT aircond and travel 90-100km/h ..after i arrived at JB and full tank again it's only cost me RM32 for the petrol .But fyi my car also use xtra thing to support it like micro compressor, voltage stabilizer,power booster and "cap ayam" airfilter.. yeah and 2 butterfly Japan carburator from the kedai potong , bcoz my previous carb sent to scrap shop...ok back to the topic just try it..!
for my car i full tank at BHP Jenjarom Kuala Langat travel to Johor Baharu WITHOUT aircond and travel 90-100km/h ..after i arrived at JB and full tank again it's only cost me RM32 for the petrol .But fyi my car also use xtra thing to support it like micro compressor, voltage stabilizer,power booster and "cap ayam" airfilter.. yeah and 2 butterfly Japan carburator from the kedai potong , bcoz my previous carb sent to scrap shop...ok back to the topic just try it..!
Yes it does make a difference. That's why rotary engine car owners uses 2T as a premix or Marvel Mystery Oil.
FYI, Rotary engine pump a little bit of the engine oil from the oil pan into the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals (it's like the piston ring in a piston engine).
That's why there are specially formulated synthetic engine oil for rotary only or the default is to use mineral oil as they burn clean inside the rotary engine combustion chamber.
Simply put, the rotary engine internal lubrication is similar to a 2-stroke motorbike engine.
If u want to use 2T oil as a premix, you will need to find those with low-ash formulation otherwise it might cause carbon build up. And also make sure it is TCW3 certified type of 2T oil.
Marvel Mystery Oil burns clean. I'm sure u can google about Marvel Mystery Oil. From what I know, some people use Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) to unstuck jammed pistons and also to lubricate the piston rings of newly built (overhauled) engine. It provides the lubrication at initial start up of the newly built engine and burns clean.
Some old classic cars also use a dedicated bottle in the engine compartment to pump Marvel Mystery Oil into the combustion chamber to lubricate the piston rings.. very similar to the lubrication of the rotary engine.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2008/10/20/on-deck-whippets/
Another application for Marvel Mystery Oil is found in lubricating some superchargers like theJudson Supercharger
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Source: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=15438
My lesson in History of MMO came from an old Harley/Vincent motorcycle rider/mechanic and machine shop owner. (George Brey served with Patton in WWII) He says that MMO was originally invented back in the early 1920's as as a supercharger lubricant for racing and for planes. As the air/fuel mixture came into the supercharger (blower for the drag guys) it was compressed by spinning vanes so that more of the mixture could be "charged" into thru the intake manifold and into the cylinders. Problem was that air/ruel is not a good lubricant and as the vanes spun by the inside of the supercharger housing both the vanes and the housing would be worn away ultimately negating the performance of the "charger." MMO mixed with fuel provides a "burnable" lubricant that coats the vanes and housing thus thus extending and improving the perfomance life of the "charger." It is also an excellent top cylinder cleansing agent, keeping valves, heads, and piston tops free of carbon, varnish, and corrosive materials. Taking apart an engine that had MMO in the fuel and crankcase shows it keeps the internals "clean as a hound's tooth." Says George as he nods as if passing on an old hidden secret. All I can say is it works on all my 7's and boingers. It's great for starting flooded rotaries. Nowhere near as smokey as ATF, and since it was designed to be burned, it's better for your rotary than ATF which wasn't meant to be burned.
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If 2 stroke bike,it is normal to do premix with correct ratio or blown the piston....but today modern strokers mostly has a seperate 2T tank with autolube system(introduced in Yamaha sportsbike in 70's,the RD series) to mix the 2T with petrol during running time.
But for 2T engine,you can use cooking oil as alternative too.No probs has been occured,& I also got a 2 stroke bike & you can see some trackday kaki using cooking oil & doing their own premix(to avoid engine jam during high rev operation) for their 2T track bike.
But dont know about the rotary engine....maybe it also can use the cheap alternative as I stated?
But for 2T engine,you can use cooking oil as alternative too.No probs has been occured,& I also got a 2 stroke bike & you can see some trackday kaki using cooking oil & doing their own premix(to avoid engine jam during high rev operation) for their 2T track bike.
But dont know about the rotary engine....maybe it also can use the cheap alternative as I stated?
hehehe, i have been using cooking oil to flush my l4 engine only, not yet tried as fuel aditive....
---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
hmmmm, every fill up cost more rm4 for marvel.......i guess it can be done intervally.......affordable :)
thnx 4 da tips
---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
hmmmm, every fill up cost more rm4 for marvel.......i guess it can be done intervally.......affordable :)
thnx 4 da tips
I've been using Marvel Mystery Oil as a Premix for my rotary engine.
It burns clean and lubricate and soften carbon so that it can be blown out of the exhaust easily.
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------
Marvel Mystery Oil acts as a lubricant as well soften up the carbon build-up in your combustion chamber as well as valves.
Then when u rev your engine hard, it will shoot out the carbon.
It burns clean and lubricate and soften carbon so that it can be blown out of the exhaust easily.
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------
Marvel Mystery Oil acts as a lubricant as well soften up the carbon build-up in your combustion chamber as well as valves.
Then when u rev your engine hard, it will shoot out the carbon.
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