A VW Golf still looks very shiny and the reflection is so perfect after one month of Permanon Supershine application
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A VW GTi with Permanon Detailing
- Thread starter hemah
- Start date
hemah you DIY? I enjoy reading the journey of detailing autos and how one assess the problem/defects and decide what is best. Jumping from start to end is no fun - like watching only the start/end of a movie. How did you inspect for defects without a spotlight/torch/etc? Care to share your work+journey like those of s1tl/KC/fishbonez/Muyo/Veloc/etc?
Hmm... Chill guys...
I think, to be fair, no need for LED or inspection lamp. Because he didn't say that this is a detail. He's just advertising a coating.
Having said that, I believe in the chinese saying "one part of money, one part of product". A product can be advertised as smashingly good. But there are a few issues:
1. Is it really that good
2. How much does it cost?
3. Is it worth it (satisfaction/price)?
4. Is it necessary/practical for use?
Let us review one by one. I might not be accurate, but just for the sake of this discussion, let me categorize products into 3 categories namely consumer range (Soft99, Turtlewax, Carplan etc), premium (Optimum, Megs, Autoglym, 3M etc) and exotic (I don't know many. But these are specially formulated products for specific cars. My friend told me Swissvax can do that).
1. Is it really that good? Marketing a.k.a bullshit is a powerful power. Whether it is really that good or not will only be known when a person tries. Then, this brings us the the next question which is...
2. How much does it cost? Let's say there is a new exotic product in the market. They advertise it to have all the God abilities. But it costs 5-6 times more than usual brands and maybe 3 times more than existing premium brand. Do you want to try it then? It is a gamble. It might be good and might be not as good as it says. Okay let's say it is as good as it says. It has all the God abilities that is advertised despite the God price. Then we still have to think about...
3. Is it worth it? What car are you driving? Mainstream Proton, Perodua, Honda, Toyota, Nissan? Or executives like BMW, Merc, Audi? Or exotics like Ferrari, Porsche, Bentley? There are many exotic products in the market. Swissvax even have colour specific wax tuned specially for your car's paint and colour. But are you going to send your toyota, honda, proton or perodua details to swissvax factory for them to custom make a wax for you? Your wax and car care kit will then maybe cost yo 10% of your car's price.
4. Is is necessary/practical? Is your car a daily driven car or a furniture car at home? Even if an exotic product gives you a shine at a value of 9.5 out of 10; and a premium product like megs gives you a shine on a value of 8.5. Take your car out for a short drive in the city, a layer of traffic film is deposited on the paint. Then park it somewhere and compare. Is the difference even noticeable?
So are you going to wash & wax/coat your car everyday before going out to work just for the hardly noticeable difference (that lasts 30 minutes after you've left your house); then drive super slow side by side another car so that people can actually see the difference of shine between your car and the car next to you?
What I think is, if you got exotics like Ferrari and Bentley, go ahead and give em' the exotic treatment that they deserve, if you think exotic and premium products actually makes a noticeable difference. But for a daily driven car, not necessary. Of course you can if you want to. And there are even many exotic drivers who are very happy with premium products. They find that there is no need to go for exotic products because there is no noticeable difference. Those difference that are only noticeable by a colourimeter analysis...
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------
Conclusion is... For all products in the market, when you go up from consumer range to premium to exotic, you are paying more and more for less and less benefits. This is diminishing returns. Lower down on the scale, you will pay a little more for a lot more gains. But going upwards, you pay a lot more for little gains.
That's why for me, premium range is the choice. It is a lot better than consumer range. More expensive but still affordable because the extra quality. And sometimes it is so good that you need to use only a little bit. Exotics are expensive, and the gains are marginal.
I think, to be fair, no need for LED or inspection lamp. Because he didn't say that this is a detail. He's just advertising a coating.
Having said that, I believe in the chinese saying "one part of money, one part of product". A product can be advertised as smashingly good. But there are a few issues:
1. Is it really that good
2. How much does it cost?
3. Is it worth it (satisfaction/price)?
4. Is it necessary/practical for use?
Let us review one by one. I might not be accurate, but just for the sake of this discussion, let me categorize products into 3 categories namely consumer range (Soft99, Turtlewax, Carplan etc), premium (Optimum, Megs, Autoglym, 3M etc) and exotic (I don't know many. But these are specially formulated products for specific cars. My friend told me Swissvax can do that).
1. Is it really that good? Marketing a.k.a bullshit is a powerful power. Whether it is really that good or not will only be known when a person tries. Then, this brings us the the next question which is...
2. How much does it cost? Let's say there is a new exotic product in the market. They advertise it to have all the God abilities. But it costs 5-6 times more than usual brands and maybe 3 times more than existing premium brand. Do you want to try it then? It is a gamble. It might be good and might be not as good as it says. Okay let's say it is as good as it says. It has all the God abilities that is advertised despite the God price. Then we still have to think about...
3. Is it worth it? What car are you driving? Mainstream Proton, Perodua, Honda, Toyota, Nissan? Or executives like BMW, Merc, Audi? Or exotics like Ferrari, Porsche, Bentley? There are many exotic products in the market. Swissvax even have colour specific wax tuned specially for your car's paint and colour. But are you going to send your toyota, honda, proton or perodua details to swissvax factory for them to custom make a wax for you? Your wax and car care kit will then maybe cost yo 10% of your car's price.
4. Is is necessary/practical? Is your car a daily driven car or a furniture car at home? Even if an exotic product gives you a shine at a value of 9.5 out of 10; and a premium product like megs gives you a shine on a value of 8.5. Take your car out for a short drive in the city, a layer of traffic film is deposited on the paint. Then park it somewhere and compare. Is the difference even noticeable?
So are you going to wash & wax/coat your car everyday before going out to work just for the hardly noticeable difference (that lasts 30 minutes after you've left your house); then drive super slow side by side another car so that people can actually see the difference of shine between your car and the car next to you?
What I think is, if you got exotics like Ferrari and Bentley, go ahead and give em' the exotic treatment that they deserve, if you think exotic and premium products actually makes a noticeable difference. But for a daily driven car, not necessary. Of course you can if you want to. And there are even many exotic drivers who are very happy with premium products. They find that there is no need to go for exotic products because there is no noticeable difference. Those difference that are only noticeable by a colourimeter analysis...
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------
Conclusion is... For all products in the market, when you go up from consumer range to premium to exotic, you are paying more and more for less and less benefits. This is diminishing returns. Lower down on the scale, you will pay a little more for a lot more gains. But going upwards, you pay a lot more for little gains.
That's why for me, premium range is the choice. It is a lot better than consumer range. More expensive but still affordable because the extra quality. And sometimes it is so good that you need to use only a little bit. Exotics are expensive, and the gains are marginal.
- Apr 1, 2008
- 434
- 175
- 1,543
Well....there's a saying: You never try, you'll never know. I'll be having some soon to test out. Maybe I'll put some of my thoughts about it here afterwards.
Anyway, just to say something. People would do anything to sell their products. Some do it openly and some do it secretly/covertly. If you're selling them just admit it. Even though it's unethical to take advantage of a free forum like ZTH here, but be honest about it or else people won't have the confidence in you or the product you're selling.
Anyway, just to say something. People would do anything to sell their products. Some do it openly and some do it secretly/covertly. If you're selling them just admit it. Even though it's unethical to take advantage of a free forum like ZTH here, but be honest about it or else people won't have the confidence in you or the product you're selling.
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Well, at the end, we are just sharing the satisfaction of the result with the members here. It is their choice to get more info from the supplier if they would like to.
Anyway, you can find the supplier info in the market places, car shop and services.
Anyway, you can find the supplier info in the market places, car shop and services.
A review from Autogeek, one of the most popular car detailing website.
Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
Some of the contents are as follows.
I received 2 sample products from Permanon that I requested to do a review on. They sent me both the Auto product as well as the Platinum product. The Platinum is a new product that was just introduced in 2011.
What is Permanon?
Permanon is a one-of-a-kind technology product that is a spray on nano coating for non porous surfaces. Their technology has been licensed to G Techniq however for their C2 coating. That product has similarities to the Permanon Auto product. Currently there is no product similar to the Platinum.
How does it work?
To me, this is the most fascinating part about it. This technology actually came about as a result of a laboratory mishap which yielded a result that would ultimately become Permanon. Most surfaces in nature have a negative charge to them. These surfaces include the painted surface on your car whether it be metal, plastic, aluminum or carbon fibre. Glass and plastic are also negatively charged. In fact, if you apply a wax, sealant or nano glass coating to the surface such as Opti Coat or CQuartz, the surface retains its negative charge. Permanon contains silicon which has in nature a positive charge. You know what happens if you hold 2 magnets to each other with a negative side on one and a positive side on another: they attach themselves to each other very quickly. This is exactly what happens when you spray Permanon onto the surface of a non porous material. The protection in Permanon attaches itself to the surface. Not only that, but the true chemical beauty of it is that the surface has now changed polarity and has a positive charge. The significance of that is that dust, dirt and water are actually repelled by the surface of the material. Just like trying to bring 2 magnets together of the same polarity....ain't gonna happen!!
What can it be applied to?
As previously mentioned, non porous materials. What it will not work on is a much shorter list than what it will work on. Do not apply to cloth, unsealed leather, and rubber. Metal, plastic and glass are primary examples of what can be treated with Permanon. The metal can even be bare. I treated raw aluminum with Permanon Platinum and it sealed it and protected it against oxidization and finger prints. See HERE for the link to the job. You can pretty much apply Permanon to the entire outside of your vehicle. Paint, glass and trim. It will not hurt the tires or rubber if it is sprayed onto the surface, it just won't yield any protection for that surface.
How can it be applied?
Permanon, either Auto or Platinum, comes highly concentrated. In fact, you can use either a 5 or max 10% solution of Permanon to 90 to 95% of distilled water. Application can be via a pump sprayer of the garden type variety or even through a pressurized paint gun. You do not need to soak the surface. Just mist it on until you see the water on the surface beading and then you know it has bonded. The surface does not need to be previously wiped down with an alcohol wipe or equivalent. Make sure the surface is clean and dry...that's it!
How do I remove it?
OK, if the technology of this product didn't set it apart already, wait to you hear this: you can actually apply and remove this product without touching your surface! Once the Permanon has been applied, it can be immediately removed as the bonding process is instantaneous. All you are doing at this point is removing the distilled water that was used as a carrier for the Permanon. So, to remove that water without touching your paint, use a leaf blower or auto blower such as the Master Blaster. You don't want to leave the water on the paint, even if it is distilled, since you may get water spotting with it. Voila! You have just protected your surface without actually touching it. That method is my personal suggestion. Permanon suggests drying the surface with a micro fiber drying towel. Fair enough, but we all know that any time you touch the surface, you risk instilling marring of the paint. My method prevents that.
What kind of durability can I expect?
Permanon is not removed by normal cleaning products. You can remove it with an alkaline PH of 12.5 or greater which is extremely high on the scale. Most acids will not remove it although hydrofluoric acid can as well. These 2 examples are not something to which you would ever subject a painted surface! Otherwise, it will stay active for approx 6 months on a daily driver. A "Garage Queen" could theoretically stay protected for years.
What about maintenance?
Permanon will not adhere to itself. (Remember the magnets of the same polarity?) However, if there is an area where the Permanon has started to fade from, simply go over that area with new Permanon and it will bond to the low spots or the spots where it is no longer active. If in doubt, just go around the whole car again.
Permanon's Strengths:
I've already mentioned the repelling of dirt, dust and water. One of the key attributes to Permanon as well is its ability to withstand heat. Where this comes into play specifically with autos is with wheels and the resulting brake dust. When the brake dust settles on the wheels, it is at 265°F. This product can withstand heat up to 572°F!! Therefore, the brake dust cannot burn itself onto the surface of the Permanon-treated wheel like it could with a wax or sealant treated surface. Cleaning of brake dust just got easy.
Why different products?
The original product developed for vehicles was the Permanon Auto. In 2011, Permanon introduced Platinum. It is the same type of spray on silica based product, yet it has a higher silicon content than the Auto does. This makes it a better product with better bonding characteristics.
Let me see it in action!
Here is a video review I shot on my iphone (one handed all by myself; sorry about the quality) that demonstrates the water shedding characteristics of Permanon (and as compared to CQuartz) as well as the application of the Platinum.
Conclusions:
This can be used in many ways. It can be used for stand alone protection for the outside of a vehicle with a time frame of approx 6 months of protection. It can be used in difficult to access areas such as the barrels of wheels and the wheel wells if they're non porous. Permanon offers great protection for wheels due to its heat resistance. It gives the surface a smooth feel and a brilliant shine. The uses are really only limited by your imagination. It can be an excellent topper for any coating or protection that you may already have so you don't need to strip or polish your paint to apply it.
It will act like an Aquapel type product on glass when driving down the road. The bottle will last a long time due to its concentration and mixing ratio.
Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
Some of the contents are as follows.
I received 2 sample products from Permanon that I requested to do a review on. They sent me both the Auto product as well as the Platinum product. The Platinum is a new product that was just introduced in 2011.
What is Permanon?
Permanon is a one-of-a-kind technology product that is a spray on nano coating for non porous surfaces. Their technology has been licensed to G Techniq however for their C2 coating. That product has similarities to the Permanon Auto product. Currently there is no product similar to the Platinum.
How does it work?
To me, this is the most fascinating part about it. This technology actually came about as a result of a laboratory mishap which yielded a result that would ultimately become Permanon. Most surfaces in nature have a negative charge to them. These surfaces include the painted surface on your car whether it be metal, plastic, aluminum or carbon fibre. Glass and plastic are also negatively charged. In fact, if you apply a wax, sealant or nano glass coating to the surface such as Opti Coat or CQuartz, the surface retains its negative charge. Permanon contains silicon which has in nature a positive charge. You know what happens if you hold 2 magnets to each other with a negative side on one and a positive side on another: they attach themselves to each other very quickly. This is exactly what happens when you spray Permanon onto the surface of a non porous material. The protection in Permanon attaches itself to the surface. Not only that, but the true chemical beauty of it is that the surface has now changed polarity and has a positive charge. The significance of that is that dust, dirt and water are actually repelled by the surface of the material. Just like trying to bring 2 magnets together of the same polarity....ain't gonna happen!!
What can it be applied to?
As previously mentioned, non porous materials. What it will not work on is a much shorter list than what it will work on. Do not apply to cloth, unsealed leather, and rubber. Metal, plastic and glass are primary examples of what can be treated with Permanon. The metal can even be bare. I treated raw aluminum with Permanon Platinum and it sealed it and protected it against oxidization and finger prints. See HERE for the link to the job. You can pretty much apply Permanon to the entire outside of your vehicle. Paint, glass and trim. It will not hurt the tires or rubber if it is sprayed onto the surface, it just won't yield any protection for that surface.
How can it be applied?
Permanon, either Auto or Platinum, comes highly concentrated. In fact, you can use either a 5 or max 10% solution of Permanon to 90 to 95% of distilled water. Application can be via a pump sprayer of the garden type variety or even through a pressurized paint gun. You do not need to soak the surface. Just mist it on until you see the water on the surface beading and then you know it has bonded. The surface does not need to be previously wiped down with an alcohol wipe or equivalent. Make sure the surface is clean and dry...that's it!
How do I remove it?
OK, if the technology of this product didn't set it apart already, wait to you hear this: you can actually apply and remove this product without touching your surface! Once the Permanon has been applied, it can be immediately removed as the bonding process is instantaneous. All you are doing at this point is removing the distilled water that was used as a carrier for the Permanon. So, to remove that water without touching your paint, use a leaf blower or auto blower such as the Master Blaster. You don't want to leave the water on the paint, even if it is distilled, since you may get water spotting with it. Voila! You have just protected your surface without actually touching it. That method is my personal suggestion. Permanon suggests drying the surface with a micro fiber drying towel. Fair enough, but we all know that any time you touch the surface, you risk instilling marring of the paint. My method prevents that.
What kind of durability can I expect?
Permanon is not removed by normal cleaning products. You can remove it with an alkaline PH of 12.5 or greater which is extremely high on the scale. Most acids will not remove it although hydrofluoric acid can as well. These 2 examples are not something to which you would ever subject a painted surface! Otherwise, it will stay active for approx 6 months on a daily driver. A "Garage Queen" could theoretically stay protected for years.
What about maintenance?
Permanon will not adhere to itself. (Remember the magnets of the same polarity?) However, if there is an area where the Permanon has started to fade from, simply go over that area with new Permanon and it will bond to the low spots or the spots where it is no longer active. If in doubt, just go around the whole car again.
Permanon's Strengths:
I've already mentioned the repelling of dirt, dust and water. One of the key attributes to Permanon as well is its ability to withstand heat. Where this comes into play specifically with autos is with wheels and the resulting brake dust. When the brake dust settles on the wheels, it is at 265°F. This product can withstand heat up to 572°F!! Therefore, the brake dust cannot burn itself onto the surface of the Permanon-treated wheel like it could with a wax or sealant treated surface. Cleaning of brake dust just got easy.
Why different products?
The original product developed for vehicles was the Permanon Auto. In 2011, Permanon introduced Platinum. It is the same type of spray on silica based product, yet it has a higher silicon content than the Auto does. This makes it a better product with better bonding characteristics.
Let me see it in action!
Here is a video review I shot on my iphone (one handed all by myself; sorry about the quality) that demonstrates the water shedding characteristics of Permanon (and as compared to CQuartz) as well as the application of the Platinum.
Conclusions:
This can be used in many ways. It can be used for stand alone protection for the outside of a vehicle with a time frame of approx 6 months of protection. It can be used in difficult to access areas such as the barrels of wheels and the wheel wells if they're non porous. Permanon offers great protection for wheels due to its heat resistance. It gives the surface a smooth feel and a brilliant shine. The uses are really only limited by your imagination. It can be an excellent topper for any coating or protection that you may already have so you don't need to strip or polish your paint to apply it.
It will act like an Aquapel type product on glass when driving down the road. The bottle will last a long time due to its concentration and mixing ratio.
as a fellow detailer if u want people to see ur product and know that ur product stands a strong ground i think u and i should know putting a spotlight or sungun on to the paint will prove it all. or even under the sun shots. why are u hiding inside ur porch??? everyone knows that without proper lighting u will always see super glossy and shiny 
btw this section is not for advertising its for sharing your work.
btw this section is not for advertising its for sharing your work.
Hi Bro,
I shall clarify the product in the first place. It's my bad.
Extracted from Permanon website:
Permanon is a brilliant 21st century surface protection that eliminates the need for buffing or polishing and is conveniently sold as a concentrate so that you buy less water and more protection. Permanon utilizes waterborne nano-engineered particles of Silicium (14Si) that electrostatically bond to the surface being protected. There is no chemical or mechanical action to damage, or alter, the surface you are protecting. Permanon is designed to protect polyurethane topcoats and other solid surfaces such as glass, FRP, stainless steel, chrome, rubber, finished leather, granite, varnish, enamel, and solid surface products. Permanon protection will outlast any wax or oil based renewable surface protection and comes specially formulated for Aircraft, Yachts, Boats, Cars, Trucks, Interiors, Pool & Spas, and Glass.
Well, I believe it does explain that Permanon is a product that provides protection for any surfaces. It gives an option for DIY car lovers who would like to protect their car instead of just using wax/sealant. Hence, it is user's choice to do a surface prep job prior to the application of Permanon. I believe that putting a spotlight or sungun is to show the job done on surface prep, instead of seeing how good the product that provides protection such as waxes, sealants and coatings. How glossy or shiny that the products can produce, I believe that we do not either need a spotlight or gunlight to see it. Our eyes can see and our hands can feel it, and it is subjective. :) Just my $0.02.
Thanks
I shall clarify the product in the first place. It's my bad.
Extracted from Permanon website:
Permanon is a brilliant 21st century surface protection that eliminates the need for buffing or polishing and is conveniently sold as a concentrate so that you buy less water and more protection. Permanon utilizes waterborne nano-engineered particles of Silicium (14Si) that electrostatically bond to the surface being protected. There is no chemical or mechanical action to damage, or alter, the surface you are protecting. Permanon is designed to protect polyurethane topcoats and other solid surfaces such as glass, FRP, stainless steel, chrome, rubber, finished leather, granite, varnish, enamel, and solid surface products. Permanon protection will outlast any wax or oil based renewable surface protection and comes specially formulated for Aircraft, Yachts, Boats, Cars, Trucks, Interiors, Pool & Spas, and Glass.
Well, I believe it does explain that Permanon is a product that provides protection for any surfaces. It gives an option for DIY car lovers who would like to protect their car instead of just using wax/sealant. Hence, it is user's choice to do a surface prep job prior to the application of Permanon. I believe that putting a spotlight or sungun is to show the job done on surface prep, instead of seeing how good the product that provides protection such as waxes, sealants and coatings. How glossy or shiny that the products can produce, I believe that we do not either need a spotlight or gunlight to see it. Our eyes can see and our hands can feel it, and it is subjective. :) Just my $0.02.
Thanks
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lets just read more review about our beloved bro fishbonez. he has tested the few coatings on glass and we shall see how the coatings behave.
Aiya... Nevermind la... Chill... To be fair, he is advertising a coating here... Not a detailing journey... Well, to know whether it is as good as it says or not, only trials can prove that.
But, whatever coatings also, it is best to correct the surface first. If not, one will only deal the contaminants/faults below the coating. Even though it shines like mad, the defects will be visible.... And even more difficult to correct in the future.
But, whatever coatings also, it is best to correct the surface first. If not, one will only deal the contaminants/faults below the coating. Even though it shines like mad, the defects will be visible.... And even more difficult to correct in the future.
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