Too much Negative Offset Wheels = Slight Wheel Vibration ?

Mitevo7

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Mitevo7

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Dear All,

As mentioned above, i want to know the whether too much negative offset in OEM wheels can cause tire vibrations. Current car is an E46 318ci with stock undercarriage. Wheel hub is still using stock and standard which sits quite inside the fender. Current wheels are OEM 17" with ET37 offset. My mechanic already gave me a preamp that i will experience slight vibration and on-wheel balancing can only reduce it but not cure it completely. As he said, i did feel slight vibrations randomly at any speed depending on road conditions.

Should i change back to wheels within my 318ci spec or there's something wrong with my car ? For guys who didn't know my car, its running on 1JZGTE engine with custom driveshaft using Toyota Crown's and E46 flange to rear axle with 3.46 differential.
 

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" BMW "

:biggrin:

There are only a few reasons why you'd experience vibration - rim damaged a little, tyre wear uneven before you went all negative camber, wheel bearing, the way the BMW lower arm and all are designed perhaps might not be suited for aggressive camber

Which one is it? How much camber you on anyway?
 

Mitevo7

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Mitevo7

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" BMW "

:biggrin:

There are only a few reasons why you'd experience vibration - rim damaged a little, tyre wear uneven before you went all negative camber, wheel bearing, the way the BMW lower arm and all are designed perhaps might not be suited for aggressive camber

Which one is it? How much camber you on anyway?
1.) RIM seems perfectly round
2.) Tyres are new and in good shape
3.) Not running aggressive negative camber, -0.1 only.

Actually its not really a very obvious vibration, more like pulsing at higher speed in the region of 160 km/h - 180km/h. Can loud straight flow exhaust could have contributed that ? I am running a 3 inch straight flow exhaust with only one resonator, so the car is actually kinda loud.
 

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1.) RIM seems perfectly round
2.) Tyres are new and in good shape
3.) Not running aggressive negative camber, -0.1 only.

Actually its not really a very obvious vibration, more like pulsing at higher speed in the region of 160 km/h - 180km/h. Can loud straight flow exhaust could have contributed that ? I am running a 3 inch straight flow exhaust with only one resonator, so the car is actually kinda loud.
I need to experience it to understand. If the vibration is only at a specific speed then that's interesting
 

lsm1991

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lsm1991

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1.) RIM seems perfectly round
2.) Tyres are new and in good shape
3.) Not running aggressive negative camber, -0.1 only.

Actually its not really a very obvious vibration, more like pulsing at higher speed in the region of 160 km/h - 180km/h. Can loud straight flow exhaust could have contributed that ? I am running a 3 inch straight flow exhaust with only one resonator, so the car is actually kinda loud.
nah cant be the exhaust. that at worst causes ur floorpan to resonate. also if it was, it would have existed before and after the rim change.

if the tire sticks out further, it does make sense for any vibrations to be exaggerated.

if anything id be looking at the driveshaft
 

Mitevo7

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I need to experience it to understand. If the vibration is only at a specific speed then that's interesting
You referring to the vibration suspected caused by the loud exhaust ? Around 160-180 km/h, the car is at around 4k rpm and it sounds the loudest.
 

Mitevo7

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nah cant be the exhaust. that at worst causes ur floorpan to resonate. also if it was, it would have existed before and after the rim change.

if the tire sticks out further, it does make sense for any vibrations to be exaggerated.

if anything id be looking at the driveshaft
Actually i felt the vibration or pulsing is most obvious in the floor and seats. Body is ok.

My mechanic already warned me on the vibration due to the tyre sticking out far from the wheel hub. Driveshaft is in perfect condition, in fact i just changed a pair last week. The tyre is almost out of the car body though
 

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Actually i felt the vibration or pulsing is most obvious in the floor and seats. Body is ok.

My mechanic already warned me on the vibration due to the tyre sticking out far from the wheel hub. Driveshaft is in perfect condition, in fact i just changed a pair last week. The tyre is almost out of the car body though
Ah ok. I think I have an idea what you're referring to. Just fyi the hub and all aren't necessarily built to perfect specs, there's always some tolerance. So even if you have perfect rims and tyres and everything else there will be some imbalances somewhere. On-wheel balancing is a manual art and if done properly should fix any vibrations.

But to experience the pulse or vibration at a specific speed - erm.... and no exhaust should not affect your wheel vibrations la. If you're coming for the 30th TT - let me test test your car pls! I am dying to know how an e46 1j feels like
 

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1.) RIM seems perfectly round
2.) Tyres are new and in good shape
3.) Not running aggressive negative camber, -0.1 only.

Actually its not really a very obvious vibration, more like pulsing at higher speed in the region of 160 km/h - 180km/h. Can loud straight flow exhaust could have contributed that ? I am running a 3 inch straight flow exhaust with only one resonator, so the car is actually kinda loud.
Do you mean -1 deg? -0.1 is near 0......lol
 

Mitevo7

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Ah ok. I think I have an idea what you're referring to. Just fyi the hub and all aren't necessarily built to perfect specs, there's always some tolerance. So even if you have perfect rims and tyres and everything else there will be some imbalances somewhere. On-wheel balancing is a manual art and if done properly should fix any vibrations.

But to experience the pulse or vibration at a specific speed - erm.... and no exhaust should not affect your wheel vibrations la. If you're coming for the 30th TT - let me test test your car pls! I am dying to know how an e46 1j feels like
Hahaha no need dying to know, i will be there with the E46
Ah ok. I think I have an idea what you're referring to. Just fyi the hub and all aren't necessarily built to perfect specs, there's always some tolerance. So even if you have perfect rims and tyres and everything else there will be some imbalances somewhere. On-wheel balancing is a manual art and if done properly should fix any vibrations.

But to experience the pulse or vibration at a specific speed - erm.... and no exhaust should not affect your wheel vibrations la. If you're coming for the 30th TT - let me test test your car pls! I am dying to know how an e46 1j feels like
Nothing drastic as it's an automatic 1JZ with 3.46 final drive, good for high speed driving but a bit underwhelming at the hill climb. Just had a drive up to Genting last Saturday and engine needs time to build up boost to get acceleration, and by the time ideal boost has reached, my speed is already about 110 km/h on the straight and corners will require me to drop the speed down to 50-60 km/h, RPM is under 2.5k that time and boost is out of the way haha.
 

Mitevo7

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Do you mean -1 deg? -0.1 is near 0......lol
Yeah - 0.1, i am not running anything special as this car is built for leisure driving and none of hard cornering. Right now i am looking to kill the exhaust noise, looking for someone who can fix it up the interior and audio system and take it to a long distance drive. Guess its a long journey.
 

Mitevo7

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Dear All,

One more thing i left out, the nut holes on my BMW's current rim is M14 size while the wheel hub hole is M12, therefore i custom 20 pcs of nut spacers to make M12 nut to able to fit in the rim's M14 hole. Do you guys think that could contribute to my current issue ?
 
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Yeah - 0.1, i am not running anything special as this car is built for leisure driving and none of hard cornering. Right now i am looking to kill the exhaust noise, looking for someone who can fix it up the interior and audio system and take it to a long distance drive. Guess its a long journey.
What is your original specs? If original is positive then -0.1 is negative. Most of my friends already running -1 to -1.5 for daily....
 

lsm1991

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Dear All,

One more thing i left out, the nut holes on my BMW's current rim is M14 size while the wheel hub hole is M12, therefore i custom 20 pcs of nut space to make M12 nut to make the nut fit in the M14 hole. Do you guys think that could contribute to my current issue ?
unlikely...
 

parakey

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Dear All,

One more thing i left out, the nut holes on my BMW's current rim is M14 size while the wheel hub hole is M12, therefore i custom 20 pcs of nut space to make M12 nut to make the nut fit in the M14 hole. Do you guys think that could contribute to my current issue ?
20 pieces? What do they look like? Do you have a pic
 

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Is your tyre sticking out from fender, if yes maybe its causing air turbulence.
this is likely since he only sees the issue at quite high speeds.

Dear All,

One more thing i left out, the nut holes on my BMW's current rim is M14 size while the wheel hub hole is M12, therefore i custom 20 pcs of nut space to make M12 nut to make the nut fit in the M14 hole. Do you guys think that could contribute to my current issue ?
what...? What is a nut space and 20 pieces of what? I'm confused. Show pics pls
 

Mitevo7

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wait... i do assume you have them centric rings in place?
Yes but when we tried with regular hub centric ring, the wheels couldn't fit. The difference between the wheel bore is only by 2 mm so we have to manually shave off the extra metal to fit the wheels in completely.
 

Mitevo7

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this is likely since he only sees the issue at quite high speeds.


what...? What is a nut space and 20 pieces of what? I'm confused. Show pics pls


Something like this, my stock 318ci lug nut is M12, while the wheels itself is M14, i have to custom a lug nut spacer just to make sure the lug nut fit in the holes completely. Those spacers actually eliminated 90% of the vibration issue but my mechanic pre-amped me the tyres are too far out, almost stick out of the fender, so i will definitely feel some vibrations.
 

lsm1991

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Something like this, my stock 318ci lug nut is M12, while the wheels itself is M14, i have to custom a lug nut spacer just to make sure the lug nut fit in the holes completely. Those spacers actually eliminated 90% of the vibration issue but my mechanic pre-amped me the tyres are too far out, almost stick out of the fender, so i will definitely feel some vibrations.
ahh so its a spacer for the studs, makes sense.....

a centric ring would have been good, that is what actually centres the rim
 
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Mitevo7

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ahh so its a spacer for the studs, makes sense.....

a centric ring would have been good, that is what actually centres the rim
BMW doesn't have studs sticking out from the wheel hub, it uses nut to hold the wheels, so i think this is more like a lug nut spacer then stud, mine is totally custom make to cater my current wheels.
 

alcyon

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Yes but when we tried with regular hub centric ring, the wheels couldn't fit. The difference between the wheel bore is only by 2 mm so we have to manually shave off the extra metal to fit the wheels in completely.
You shouldnt be shaving off, you should use a lathe. these need to be precise.
 

Mitevo7

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You shouldnt be shaving off, you should use a lathe. these need to be precise.
It was done without my knowledge and approval, i am going to other tyre shop that specializes in wheels and look for the specific hub centric ring for my case. Before i suspect my suspension components, might want to check cheaper fixes first.
 

alcyon

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It was done without my knowledge and approval, i am going to other tyre shop that specializes in wheels and look for the specific hub centric ring for my case. Before i suspect my suspension components, might want to check cheaper fixes first.
This is the scary part, these people are supposed to be professionals. This is why I prefer DIY, at least I know its done right. I feel very hard to trust these so called profesionals with their "bolehlah" "cukuplah" "apalumaulagilah" attitude.
 

Mitevo7

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This is the scary part, these people are supposed to be professionals. This is why I prefer DIY, at least I know its done right. I feel very hard to trust these so called profesionals with their "bolehlah" "cukuplah" "apalumaulagilah" attitude.
Well he kept the other unshaved ring for just in case, may be i should put that up and forcefully mount it on. Have to put some grease first before putting it up.
 

lsm1991

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Something like this, my stock 318ci lug nut is M12, while the wheels itself is M14, i have to custom a lug nut spacer just to make sure the lug nut fit in the holes completely. Those spacers actually eliminated 90% of the vibration issue but my mechanic pre-amped me the tyres are too far out, almost stick out of the fender, so i will definitely feel some vibrations.
i think they are generally called 'stud spacers', stud is the extended bit, doesnt matter if its on the hub or bolt (the studs can just be screwed off the hub btw)
 

Mitevo7

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OEM e46 bmw rim or? do u face any issue before you change wheel/put spacer?
It looks like BMW OEM 166 style rim, but in 17 inch size. Previously before conversion was on BMW OEM 70 style with the wheels sit nicely within the arch and no vibration issues. The BMW OEM 166 supposing has ET28 offset which pushes the tyres further out from the wheel hub.