RM 180 for a custom Y-Pipe... :shocked:

[defcon1]

RM 180 for a custom Y-Pipe...

It's true! Excluding the flex-pipe, as I used my old one...

I got tired of waiting for news of our Y-Pipe, so, at the recommendation of a friend, I went down to JFA Motorsport down at Sunway. Jafa is well known for his work with performance vehicles and is a favourite among the Evo and WRX communities. I have always been a little hesitant about going there as I was certain that a guy who does these kind of vehicles has to be expensive... :sad_smile:

Anyway, I got there at around lunch time on Monday. Jafa is quite a humble and friendly fellow who understands his customers' concerns. After waiting for a bit, as it was a busy day and all his jacks were full, he jacked up the car, took a look at my Y-Pipe and shook his head...

After taking the thing off, he told his guy to cut out all the flanges and the flex pipe, and redo all the piping. I am impressed with his people's care for detail. His welder took pains to allign both pipes precisely before putting on the Y-joint. After putting everything together with spot welds, they obviously took it down again to weld everything together.

The final result is truly a very nice piece or work. All piping neatly welded, both downpipe sections bent and alligned perfectly parallel before combining in a y-joint and a flex pipe to the first flange. All done with various sections of 90 degree mandrel bends. The only manually bent section is a little inward bend of the forward pipe to allign it towards the first flange.

I can truthfully say that there is very little restriction in the overall construction, and the performance bears me out. The engine idles 150 rpm higher, and there are no flat spots in the power curve. Unfortunately, I was so eager to try it out, I didn't have time to have them take it down again to photograph. Needless to say, I was happy with the performance...smooth, no vibrations, and no flat spot....

What I liked about JFA...

a) No customer is too unimportant. He gives you the same attention as he gives people coming in driving a beamer. Well, maybe a little less...it takes time to count all those thousands of RM50 bills...

b) No forward appointments or any other rubbish you hear from other exhaust shops like "no time", "very difficult" etc. A lot of these people are reluctant to do the work. They prefer the "easy-money" part of the business that involves convincing customers to put on as expensive a muffler as possible and selling centre mufflers and bullets of indeterminate performance. Jafa made his reputation doing exactly this...designing exhaust systems for people. You drive in, you discuss what you want done, you listen to his recommendation, and his people do it for you. He checks at every stage, and corrects any discrepancies in his people's work. He will test the final result before proclaiming the job done.

c) He and his people are nice and friendly. Easy going and willing to talk to you. He has an air conditioned showroom that you can wait in. In fact, if you guys want to do a Y-pipe day, this would be a nice place to have a T/T session. We just send a couple of guys to the hawker centre nearby to get us some T/T...

d) His price. He charges a decent price for good work done and piping. My friend driving a Caldina did his downpipe there, and he paid RM 180 as well. The last time I asked for my Celica (exactly the same downpipe), somebody wanted to charge me RM 600 for an hour's work...grrrrr....

When he told me how much it cost for my Y-pipe, I nearly fell down... :dong: I was expecting RM 300-400 or something and was prepared for it. Thinking I'd heard wrong, I asked him,"Are you sure?"...

Anyway, I was so impressed...and the rear of my car was beginning to sound real loud with the increased flow...I dropped in again today and put in a nice S-Flow. Nice pipe, no restrictions - idle rpm remains the same, and I actually get more pickup but a lot less noise. This cost me the price of the muffler which was RM 450, fully stainless steel construction and pretty damn large with a nice agressive tip.

JFA Motorsports is on the mainroad when you drive into Sunway. You should have no trouble finding his signboard. :ciao:

 

[weikee]

wow, thats is cheap.

I need to replace my end muffler, and maybe should do it together.. how long did you wait for?

 

[cgui]

I've used JFA's service for a few times.

1st was when i was looking for a bracket for the 6" K&N filter. I went to N1 racing & they said dun have bracket for A32. The refer me to JFA to get it customized. When I went to JFA, I asked the guys there & he had a look into my car & say "No problem, 6" boleh?" ... then i ask "Bracket ader ker?" he say can lar .. no problem... so i got it changed at JFA ....

2nd was when my friend sent his E34 supercharge for check up... i was looking at the numerous mufflers in his 'showroom' .. so tangan gatal lar .. ask how much to change rear muffler S type.. was quoted RM400 + RM200 for mid.... so OK lar .. change ..

Overall JFA provides good service & yes his a friendly type of guy. A lot of guys said that he charge expensive lar .. this lar . that lar .. but i find him OK. ...

Deffy .. am suprised that he charged RM180 for the Y pipe ... this makes my hand more gatal .. will check JFA out soon ,..

 

[defcon1]

I think I waited for about 4 hours for the y-pipe...but that particular day was exceptional. He had 2 beamers, 1 supra, 1 merc, 1 wiralution, 1 track-only honda....

When I went to fix the muffler, he did it over lunch...so slightly more than an hour.

But remember, he did the y-pipe using my original flex pipe. Flex pipe would be around RM 150 or so...

 

[A329878]

Hi Defcon
This is my one, RM350 with flex-pipe ....
Around 3 hours +

 

[weikee]

Your one look cool, where did you do it?

 

[A329878]

Your one look cool, where did you do it?

In JB "seven garage"

 

[weikee]

wah.. too far already.

 

[ongteckweng]

why there is loop on the bottom half outlet???

 

[GT_AUTO]

maybe he wants equal length for both of the runner.

 

[A329878]

maybe he wants equal length for both of the runner.

Yes i'm request to make it equal length

There is different between two, acceleretion are better and smoothen

 

[ongteckweng]

Yes i'm request to make it equal length

There is different between two, acceleretion are better and smoothen

sounds gr8....too bad its in JB...

 

[weikee]

I fix my, total kill RM 750. in Wai Yip Puchong.

Change Y pipe (2"), replace original pipe to 2.2" my original pipe hole leaking already. new mid muffler, and flexi, my free R34 rear muffler.


Later will change the rear muffler to better one, i think the r34 muffler internal maybe burn out a bit noisy when listen from outside, inside the car still acceptable.

 

[weikee]

Guys, i need to replace my rear muffler, any recommend for a good and silent unit?

 

[ongteckweng]

weikee...any big S-flow muffler will do mate...2.5" inlet...hehehe
used jap brands or local made ur choice...

 

[rsrs62]

Hi guys, newbie here. I've been following your forums here. Interesting. Can learn alot of things.
Ok, after I read Defcon's RM180 Y-pipe, I got so hype up that I went to JFA and did the same thing. However, I must say I'm a little dissapointed. OK, here's what happen.
Change my Y-pipe and remove all the catcon. I agree the ori design looks very restrictive. When they completed the Y-pipe, it looks great. The bends were all very smooth. I was sure there would be improvement in terms of power. Piping size was 2". I told Jaafar that I want the same as what Defcon did and he remembered. Piping was done all the way to the mid sect. I maintain back the ori flexpipe. OK, results time.
Idling : normal, basically the same but you can feel the flow from the back muffler stronger with your hands.
Noise level: I would say an increase of about 15%. The engine sounds a little rougher when you accelerate. It is definitely bearable. Basically it sounds like an auto car. Previously, you don't feel it.
Power : This is where I'm dissapointed. I honestly don't feel any improvement. Infact, I think it's slightly less power when pick up. So, what is wrong here? How come Deffy felt the improvement.
Fuel comsumption : Can't really tell yet. But I think maybe a little higher. Well to be fair, maybe now I'm more heavy footed as I want to feel the power.
So guys, in summary, I'm thinking of putting back my ori Y-pipe but then this new design looks cool. And the noise is a little harsher. Plus I'll be wasting my time and money if i change back.
What say you guys?

 

[ongteckweng]

so basically u have change to Y-pipe, decat all the cat-converter right?
have u check ur rear muffler? and ur air filter?

how old its ur ride m whats ur mileage? the rear muffler plays a big part as well bcoz if the front half of ur exhaust system is smooth but restrictive @ the end, whats the point? i remember checking my oem muffler...outside looks ok but when i dismantle it n shaked it, its all loose inside. ie: i think the fibres r goner, hence blocking the airway.

another thing is, this u check the big center bullet? (more like a big muffler but under the passenger's seat)

 

[weikee]

Not knowing your car CC, my wild guess its your exhaust are less restrictive now but auto you need some back pressure. Maybe a mid muffler and rear muffler need to be change.

I use 2" for Y pipe, and 2.3" for the rest... Oh know what my original exhaust pipe got lots of small pin hole and its leaking gas.. haha good excuse for me to change the entire exhaust.

Now i need to source for rear muffler.

 

[defcon1]

Sorry Wei Kee, I disagree about the back-pressure. Automotive engineering dictates that ALL back-pressure results in a loss of power.

The way the Y-Pipe is supposed to work is this. Each ignition results in a pulse of heated exhaust gasses being ejected into the exhaust system. This forms a pressure wave that travels along the length of the exhaust pipes. Each pressure wave creates a vacuum behind it that pulls the next pressure wave. When the engine is on, a series of pressure waves travel along the exhaust piping, each one pulling the one behind. Because of this, the series of pressure waves travel at a higher velocity than what a single pressure wave could achieve, creating a suction effect behind it.

The suction effect of your exhaust emissions ultimately results in more air being pulled into the engine. This is called the "scavenging" effect, and results in more air (hence O2) being made available to burn more fuel and make more power.

The formation of a proper chain of pressure waves is dependent of several factors..

a) Heat. Gasses will contract when cooled, and in the exhaust pipes, they will cool ultimately. Hence, the cooler the gasses, the weaker the pressure wave. This is one of the reasons why racers wrap their headers and downpipes...not just to keep the heat out of the engine bay, but also to keep the heat IN the exhaust.

b) Diameter of piping used. Obviously, the smaller the piping, the easier it will be for the pressure wave to form. But if the piping is too small, then it quickly becomes restrictive when the volume of gasses produced increases beyond a certain threshold. Too large, and you need very high rpm to produce enough gasses to maintain the chain of pressure waves since the extra space will allow the wave form to dissipate too quickly. Generally, smaller piping is good for lower end torque, but bad for high end power.

And this is where the legend about needing back-pressure came from. Many a proton driver has discovered that putting too large pipings resulted in a draggy lower end, and you need to go above a certain rpm range before you got decent acceleration, characterized by the car suddenly "kicking" forward a little, how much or how little depended on the diameter of piping used. So, people came to the wrong conclusion that smaller piping is good for small engines because it was more restrictive and provided "back-pressure". If you provide "back-pressure" to a piston, by simple physics, it will move slower and hence, no power.

A good tuner will know how to balance between the type and size of engine you have, and the proper piping to use to achieve a particular power curve.

RSR62...a simple suggestion. A Y-Pipe is NOT the miracle product to produce uber power. You need to ensure that the ENTIRE system, from the air filter to the rear muffler is free of excessive restriction. Else, all that will happen is that the gasses will travel bloody fast...for only the 4 feet that make up your Y-pipe.

 

[rsrs62]

Hi all, just got back from out of country. Thanks for all the feedback.
OK, here's the deal. My car is A32 3 liter. No, I've not changed the air filter yet. Contemplating one. Also I did not change the rear muffler because I was worried that it will be noisy. I do not wish to sacrifice the quietness of the A32. Might consider S-flow in future. Center bullet is still original.

Well guys, know something, after I posted in the forum, the next few days when I drove the car as normal, I actually find the car OK. The sound (interior)is only very slightly harsher with a bit of sportiness at the rear which I like. Either I'm getting used to it or ..........

Incidentally, I had the opportunity to test the car at high speed few days later when I made a trip to Johor. Don't know whether the car is better or not but I was trailing a particular Toyota Caldina at about 180kmh for some time and then I decided to switch off the O/D button and ....... overtook him and started to break away from him. After that, he just followed me all the way from Tangkak all the way to J.B. averaging speeds of 190-200kmh. He was a gentleman because we only ran when the road is available. No weaving in and out.

All in all, I can say I'm quite happy.