Manifold - Ceramic Coating Vs Thermal Wrapping

[sincere1]

Ceramic Coating Vs Thermal Wrapping to Manifold / Extractor

Pls comment the following

 

[kennix]

Hi...what is head reduction???

 

[sincere1]

heat reduction

 

[horned_ripper]

heat reduction = how much heat is reduced from coming out of the pipe to the engine bay

 

[corollagtouring]

Bro sincere1... could you post the contact for the ceramic coating for rm 250 below.... cos last time i called a company posted in motortrader.... they ask for RM850 for a ceramic coating... huhuhu my 4-1 header cost RM650... ceramic 850 LOL..... not worth it.

I prefer ceramic coating..... anything as long as it wont cause rust... cause once rust develop... it will cause the system to leak exhaust fumes...

here are some of comments around the net i get about your topic:
Ceramic coat to keep the moisture out. Coating does remove alot of heat from transferring out to the air so it is beneficial on both counts. Once you have ceramic coated the piece, then heat wrap it. I used a spiral pattern that overlaps halfway all the way down so it had 2 layers of wrap. It reduces temperatures in the engine bay ALOT. Not to mention that if you have an aftermarket turbo manifold and do this to it, it will decrease spool time a little bit by keeping the exhaust energy on the inside if the pipes so it can turn the turbine.

With the wrap on, the ceramic shouldn't flake.


Most of the coatings are pretty thin. They need to be applied thick to be an effective insulator. Heat wrap will trump those 'pretty visual' coatings that many header companies are using.

Flaking, as already noted, is caused by not using the correct coating for the temperature range. And, prep is also very important. You should question whoever does your coating to see how they prep the component prior to coating.

If you want to coat, get the header/pipes/whatever coated inside and out if possible. The inside coating will prevent the header materials and welds from overheating, and will provide that 2nd level of insulation if you want to reduce underhood heat.

Ask your coating company on the difference between cosmetic coatings(the most popular) and functional coatings(which will actually insulate). And, compare that info to the dozen or so other coating companies.


one thing that seems to be missing (unless i missed reading it), is that the coatings are inside and outside on the piping. header wrap is just on the outside. so essentially you've wrapped the tubing into it's own oven. this is one of the reasons a set of wrapped headers will fail faster. you've elevated the overall temp the headers are retaining and the higher temp now creates a greater delta in the cyclical heating and cooling of the metal.

I used header wrap on my 3" downpipe and now i have holes in it because it rusted so bad.

At the very least, get some high temp. paint and spray the pipe to prevent rust.

taken from rx7 club.com

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Yeah..... 250 is dem cheap weh. IIRC, Ceramico wants 3x more than that to ceramic coat an extractor.

 

[wfhan]

I preferred ceramic coating...

 

[horned_ripper]

actually there are many types of coating.... there is heat proof powder coating.... teflon coating.... halar coating... etc.... but as corollagtouring has said.... another layer of heat shield after the coating would be the best... do understand that even 316L SUS can rust... they would not rust if there is no impurities... however, if there are stuff like sand and other metal chips that stick to the SUS pipes... they would definately rust... its only about the matter of time... therefore... if want long lasting pipes, dont really need SUS pipes... use normal "white steel".... coat it with whatever heat proof coating.... then wrap with thermal wrap.... confirm can last very long time....

just my 5cents... (have to round up liao :p)

 

[sincere1]

I was dealing the following guy as quoted 4 point intake manifold - RM250.00
Contact : H/P : 6012-9077679
It will take 2 days for the coating process

JFA motorsport quoted for the thermal wrapping RM250 + Rm130, they said they can do the ceremic coating but the price is VERY high, i believe they will pass the job to Ceramico bcos they are just in walking distance.

I am waiting for a spare manifold from frz then i will proceed the coating,
horned ripper, the different between stainless steel and 'white steel' is light-weight issue, and i yet to seee any japan aftermarket manifold is made by 'white 'steel'....

 

[corollagtouring]

Apexi Spiral 4-1 are using thick white piping.... but i dunno what type of finishing apexi use.. is it paint or ceramic paint.....

In terms of rust, stainless hard to rust, then white piping... and last normal steel...

most jap piping set are using normal steel which at the final production, the exhaust set will be sprayed with grey hitemp paint... i am not sure whether it is a ceramic coating or just paint..

but i prefer white piping or stainless as exhaust cos most steel piping won't rust easily but you know.... things located at the undercarriage are exposed to many things which could damage the protective layer and cause it to rust

Sincere1, i think i will try since the Lifespan (durability) stated lifetime.... i believe if it is just normal paint or cincai work they won't simply say LIFETIME. 2 3 days for a coating job means they are doing it using the correct method (good 1st impression)

Coating ain't an overnight job...

 

[sincere1]

the factory color of apexi sipiral is light purple, it is a paint but not ceramic, it will peel off after some day use...

sorry for my mistaken that all japan after market manifold is ss

thus

white steel (iron)
apexi spiral


s. steel
FGK banana
Cusco p-ball
HKS (4-1 / 4-4-1)

 

[glanza]

sincere1, how much for 3rd hand apex spiral??
PM me the best price ya hehe..

 

[sincere1]

the apexi spiral had sold !! ;(
i can only get the BT monifold to use temporary..

 

[corollagtouring]

Since i have already have a manifold ahaha.... let me reveal a dirty little secret.

If u want a manifold for 20v but there isn't, simple.... just buy a 16v manifold.... just need to modify i think 2 screw holes... and the o2 sensor need to be extended cos 16v 02 are facing the radiator.... 20v lies under the block.

It is the same.... result and performance.... tried and dynoed.... nothing more nothing less....

If stainless steel.... i prefer RSR manifold cos it is thicker and the weld joint are much stronger you can feel it from its weight... damn heavy,other like HK S, FGK are good but due to the material thickness, installation need to be checked throughly that the manifold swing with the engine movement... means another bracket must be made (engine block and manifold)... don't rely on the manifold to header screws only.... that is why most manifold when installed by Malaysians will crack at the weld joints near the head... heat weakens the weld joints and movement do the rest.... result... a crack

I prefer SS if it is thick...

WRX7 is selling em now... better get it before it is gone
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...age-20v-and-fgk-4-2-1-extractor-4age-16v.html

my favourite Exhaust shop is Ah Poa Ampang, Super power 2 (LRT Ampang...front), not becos the products... but i like them because of their workmanship... they know which point must be welded... add bracket and such.... unlike other shop which may missed the strengthening part, but the boss there always bising at me cos i always brought my own piping set and muffler... not buying the stuff they display... ahahaha



What to do boss, I like japanese products LOL

the factory color of apexi sipiral is light purple, it is a paint but not ceramic, it will peel off after some day use...

sorry for my mistaken that all japan after market manifold is ss

thus

white steel (iron)
apexi spiral


s. steel
FGK banana
Cusco p-ball
HKS (4-1 / 4-4-1)

 

[sincere1]

for my case, i just wanna to borrow a BT extractor from frz then i will send mine for ceramic coating... just a time for frz to find out where it is, or wait for another frz to take from penang

my decision had made from those feedback, i would not go for any thermal wrapping...thanks for all you replies.......

did anyone contact the guy hp i posted above ?

 

[corollagtouring]

Will do it end of month LOL

 

[sincere1]

The header had done the ceramic coating

The coating was done on external only, they claimed that no internal coating can be done..

The quoated was RM550
Sorry for my early mistake, i supposively heard wrongly the price

The result is very good, the heat in engine bay is significant reduced compared with previous (non-coating applied). I had forgotten to shot the temp at previous stage in order to compare before and after, therefore no point to get temp after coating had done..

by the way , i am happy with this ceramic coating

 

[changchewsoon]

:top: +1 to the post above, i too currently have my turbo manifold, housing and down pipe coated by ceramico and i am extremely happy with it. on top of that, i've also added a thermal heat shield from thermotec.

it is really recommended for inverted engines where your exhaust manifold is facing the firewall side, as there are lots of wires around that area and the last thing you want is your wires melting due to the extreme heat.

ceramic coating over thermal wrapping anytime for the win!

 

[corollagtouring]

my version of coating... i dunno whether it will stand the heat abuse, it costs RM40, using manifold hi temp paint.... will report the result.

at this moment my customer told me the paint still intact

Sincere1, wanna know... does the manifold releases any fumes or gas at 1st heat up?

 

[sincere1]

does the manifold releases any fumes or gas at 1st heat up?

I dont notice this issue, at 1st heat up, the engine running for 3 minutes (heat enough) then i closed the bonnet and droven away, i dont get any smell each time open the bonnet after that..

the hi-temp resistance paint you referred as what i believe the painting same as the purple paint used at Apexi Spiral, the paint will peel off after some times, or i should say after few years..for heat insulation ? let u tell us..