Bigger TB?

[ddv_nk12]

I have been reading a lot on TB. Some say it would not make a difference os only slight unnoticeable difference. Some say it will make a difference. I am confused now. I think its high time for me to change my TB, cuz after servicing, i still have not overcome my problem. But b4 i change, i just need to make sure that i am doing the right thing. shall i stick to my stock 62mm TB or upgrade to s90 70mm TB?

appreciate ur input.

heard that s90 is Malaysian made? true?
No.1 Malaysia Branded Throttle Body - S90 Performance

 

[mADmAN]

yes s90 is malaysian made...

and i would go for 70mm to ensure enough air goes into the engine.

 

[arrowhead]

i got a thinker before u decide. correct me if im wrong but, ur intake manifold is probably 62mm as well, to match your original tb. so getting a 70mm tb, but with the same 62mm intake manifold, would mean, the amount of air that goes in is still equivalent to the orignal 62mm. do i make sense?

 

[mADmAN]

yes u make sense and u make a very good point oso...

hence the existence of "port matching" :D

but my guess (keyword: guess) is that since the TB is bigger, the air could flow in more smoothly n with minimal restriction..

take the velocity stacks for example.. the "mouth" is always bigger than the "throat".

 

[sarutobi84]

bigger thorttle body have better throttle response.10% throttle with bigger tb is larger than smaller tb.this make any slight throttle differences.but the most impact is on the high rpm.
bigger tb also have flat butterfly holder and tapered end screw,thus minimize turbulence before entering intake manifold.
better get 70[mm] intake pipe as well and rebored the intake manifold mouth to 74mm.can use hand grinder.get skunk 2 header as well.

 

[ddv_nk12]

i got a thinker before u decide. correct me if im wrong but, ur intake manifold is probably 62mm as well, to match your original tb. so getting a 70mm tb, but with the same 62mm intake manifold, would mean, the amount of air that goes in is still equivalent to the orignal 62mm. do i make sense?

yeap. so its better to change the IM as well rite? thinking of getting ITR IM. is it ok for a daily driven car?

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

bigger thorttle body have better throttle response.10% throttle with bigger tb is larger than smaller tb.this make any slight throttle differences.but the most impact is on the high rpm.
bigger tb also have flat butterfly holder and tapered end screw,thus minimize turbulence before entering intake manifold.
better get 70[mm] intake pipe as well and rebored the intake manifold mouth to 74mm.can use hand grinder.get skunk 2 header as well.

u mentioned rebore the IM, means i can rebore my stock b16 IM? intake pipe is the pipe that connects the air filter to the TB rite?

 

[sarutobi84]

Yup IM can be bored,used hand grind also can.As long as the IM mouth is larger than TB.
My personal exp TB from 60[mm] to 63[mm] and IM from 62[mm] to 65[mm] with gasket matching as well.The throttle response increase.After setting SAFC on dyno increase about 4whp.

You did mention u have problem?is your idling unstable?never use S90 so really want to know the idling coz i don't think it have Idler Stepper Motor???

 

[virqai]

70mm...hemm....air speed increase or not for stdt cam use...hemm

 

[ddv_nk12]

Yup IM can be bored,used hand grind also can.As long as the IM mouth is larger than TB.
My personal exp TB from 60[mm] to 63[mm] and IM from 62[mm] to 65[mm] with gasket matching as well.The throttle response increase.After setting SAFC on dyno increase about 4whp.

You did mention u have problem?is your idling unstable?never use S90 so really want to know the idling coz i don't think it have Idler Stepper Motor???

my prob is when vtec kicks in, the rpm shoots up to 2k or 2.5k when idling. when moving, for e.g. 1st gear, dont have to accelerate at all till 3rg gear, car can still move cuz rpm is very high. only yesterday, when i turn on the air cond, the idling goes to bout 1.3k rpm. higher than normal which is 0.8k rpm. but it will go up n down when air cond is on. if aor cond is turned off, no problem with unstable idling except if the vtec kicks in. i have turn off and turn on again to get the rpm back to normal once it goes very high.

 

[arrowhead]

i could be wrong but it sounds to me like 3 possibilities. 1. IACV - dirty/faulty. swap with a friend and test theirs. 2. TPS sensor - maybe its not at the correct position, and trust me, this gives a damn big headache. i would advise again, swap with a friend and try. 3. throttle body screw or stopper? maybe not adjusted properly hence ur funky idle.

just my 2 cents.

 

[ddv_nk12]

thanks bro. i will check the following parts.

 

[ddv_nk12]

i could be wrong but it sounds to me like 3 possibilities. 1. IACV - dirty/faulty. swap with a friend and test theirs. 2. TPS sensor - maybe its not at the correct position, and trust me, this gives a damn big headache. i would advise again, swap with a friend and try. 3. throttle body screw or stopper? maybe not adjusted properly hence ur funky idle.

just my 2 cents.

told a guy to check for me the things i said. luckily he was nice enough to swap the iacv to test for free. i think he's prolly the 6th or 7th person telling me its the TB. So, i am gonna change the TB without thinking much anymore. but i am still wanting to know more about the IM.for a b20 vtec, what IM would u use for daily car and once in a while fast driving.

i have also read that ported b16 im actually gives u more hp than aftermarket im. true?

 

[arrowhead]

well then just change the tb and see. at least, u get a 70mm tb. hehe. anyway, as for IM, its really quite subjective. s2 fans will say s2 is best, edelbrock fans will say edelbrock is best, cheapo like me will get the cheapers (type r) and say its bang for the buck. so it really comes down to ur wallet. if u can afford edelbrock, by all means. if it doesnt work, sell it. i'm sure it can still fetch a decent price.

but just to share an experience on "bigger" IM. i tried a type r intake on my b16a, instead of giving me power, i lost low end torque. discussion with my mech was, i lost air velocity despite sucking in more air. so i changed back and i'm decided to stay with my b16a IM.

 

[mADmAN]

i cant remember where i read this... but someone said the edelbrock intake manifolds will benefit more on the higher end of the rev range while the skunk2 benefits more on the low-mid....

or something like that...cant really remember...as for TB... just go with 70mm man.... at least if u change TB, u might be able to fix ur problems....but if the TB is not the source of the problem, then u would have an upgraded TB...

and the new Skunk2 70mm Alpha series throttle body is quite yummy @ RM6xx...of course theres the cheaper option of S90.

 

[Sil80-13]

I have been advised by my tuner. If your internal cam everything is still stock, the perfect match is using the original TB size. Change to a bigger TB might be not as power as stock TB. He told me when you go for bigger TB, is when you upgrade your engine internal parts....Don't shoot me if I am wrong...

 

[arrowhead]

I have been advised by my tuner. If your internal cam everything is still stock, the perfect match is using the original TB size. Change to a bigger TB might be not as power as stock TB. He told me when you go for bigger TB, is when you upgrade your engine internal parts....Don't shoot me if I am wrong...

this argument makes sense. oem settings are to the best if ur engine is a virgin. everything should compliment each other, else honda wouldn't put it that size etc.

only if u upgrade ur CR, then i see where and how wilder cams, bigger TB, bigger IM, bigger exhaust etc comes into play..

 

[ddv_nk12]

well then just change the tb and see. at least, u get a 70mm tb. hehe. anyway, as for IM, its really quite subjective. s2 fans will say s2 is best, edelbrock fans will say edelbrock is best, cheapo like me will get the cheapers (type r) and say its bang for the buck. so it really comes down to ur wallet. if u can afford edelbrock, by all means. if it doesnt work, sell it. i'm sure it can still fetch a decent price.

but just to share an experience on "bigger" IM. i tried a type r intake on my b16a, instead of giving me power, i lost low end torque. discussion with my mech was, i lost air velocity despite sucking in more air. so i changed back and i'm decided to stay with my b16a IM.

yeah man. what u say is true. its very subjective. i have also read in many places about using stock IM and produces better gains. there is a book on how to build honda horsepower. i havent seen the book but has been widely talked bout in some US forums.

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

i cant remember where i read this... but someone said the edelbrock intake manifolds will benefit more on the higher end of the rev range while the skunk2 benefits more on the low-mid....

or something like that...cant really remember...as for TB... just go with 70mm man.... at least if u change TB, u might be able to fix ur problems....but if the TB is not the source of the problem, then u would have an upgraded TB...

and the new Skunk2 70mm Alpha series throttle body is quite yummy @ RM6xx...of course theres the cheaper option of S90.

yes, thats what i am thinking about too. since my TB is faulty, why not just upgrade it although i can get a b16 TB for less than 200 from kedai potong.

but arrowhead and sil80 has a point too. i am running on mostly stock internals with stock CR, i guess. so, it would be better for me to use stock TB and IM right? but i know definitely i will be increasing my CR and changing my cams later on when i have the means of doing it. right now i am just focusing on repairing whatever is needed. then, making my b20 more reliable. finally, performance later on. so, the wisest thing to spend my money on now would be a bigger TB and IM right? since i will be doing it some day? just need ur opinions guys. i would rather learn from u guys here then to waste my money listening to shop. so please hang in with me.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:57 PM ----------

I have been advised by my tuner. If your internal cam everything is still stock, the perfect match is using the original TB size. Change to a bigger TB might be not as power as stock TB. He told me when you go for bigger TB, is when you upgrade your engine internal parts....Don't shoot me if I am wrong...

i think ur tuner is right. it really makes sense.

---------- Post added at 07:09 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

this argument makes sense. oem settings are to the best if ur engine is a virgin. everything should compliment each other, else honda wouldn't put it that size etc.

only if u upgrade ur CR, then i see where and how wilder cams, bigger TB, bigger IM, bigger exhaust etc comes into play..

u r right bro. what would u advise me in terms of spending wisely? since my TB is gone, can i upgrade it together with the IM now? or would it be wiser to get stock b16 TB now and only when i upgrade my CR, i change the TB and IM?

 

[mADmAN]

i was running on a stock B20 with Type R cams... and i was using 70mm TB and Skunk2 IM...

everything ran ok... performance was good and i got the expectred power figures on dyno...so i dont see anything wrong with using a bigger tb...especially since ur TB now already koyak

if u were to buy a stock b16 tb....yeah.. it may be ok to use etc etc.... but later down the road when u need to upgrade... spend money AGAIN. might as well spend it now and get it over with since it really wont affect ur engine in a negative way.... for all u know u might end up getting positive gains instead...

 

[ddv_nk12]

yeah, thanks mate. i am also thinking the same way here.

any shop to recommend to get skunk2 IM? how much u bought yours previously?

 

[mADmAN]

no idea......engine wise, all setup came with the car when i bought it...

but u can check XH or mebbe Tung Chun since the ex-owner did the car at both these places