How to improve low end performance?

[saru04]

Hey guys,

I am currently driving Honda City auto transmission 1.5 year 2013. Fully stock.

My car acceleration from 0-30hm/hr is horrible. Its feels like its dragging my whole car. I am looking at ways to improve the low end acceleration.

So far there's 2 things on my mind:
1) Change only the car extractor for better flow. Reason for only choosing extractor is because I don't want my car to produce too much noise.
2) Install e-manage and tuning.

Which method mentioned above is better for low end acceleration improvement? If there is better methods please do let me know too.

Thank you.

 

[ken yeang]

bro, I don't mean to dampen your spirit...but the culprit the your average performance from your honda is due to the nature of your car. It's designed originally not mean to be a brisk car in the first place. It is tuned for fuel efficient and travelling from a-b with simplicity.

besides, its an auto, NA and only a mere 1.5l


Sorry if I sounded discouraging.

 

[satria81]

TS,

suggest you have your honda checked at the service center.

i own a honda city 2011 SE. the performance from the engine from 0-80kmh is of no issue to me. smooth power delivery. i feel it is well balanced baring on mind it is a 1500cc AUTO TRANNY.

ensure to meet the service manager at the honda service station, ensure to go to major service center , it is your right, so make a request to meet him and tell him that you do not need bullshit, but to get down to troubleshoot the problem for once and for all. try to avoid service advisors on the counter please ! know your rights, if they try to be funny, just ensure to communicate that you will take up the issue with HONDA JAPAN !!

my personal view :

- no need to change the extractor, run it stock, the manufacturer has spend lots of money on research and devolopment
- no need e-manage if the engine is stock as the stock ECU can handle it being stock.

honda city 2011 model is a awesome car to me. i have another car, but i prefer the city on many occasions

----- ITS NOTHING BESIDES THE VOICE OF EXPERIENCE HERE -----

 

[jeffayn]

you can always stick to basic mod first before going into more hardcore stuff....

for example like try selection air filters, exhaust, lighten your vehicle, lower viscosity engine oil and bla bla bla.....

then if still not meet your desire outcome, you can go into the cam,piston, clutch , emanage stuff or bolt on if you like.......

if you still not satisfied, maybe you should consider little higher cc car for a comfortable mod ground before you over spend on something that is not what you wan at the first place.

 

[g88]

Hey guys,

I am currently driving Honda City auto transmission 1.5 year 2013. Fully stock.

My car acceleration from 0-30hm/hr is horrible. Its feels like its dragging my whole car. I am looking at ways to improve the low end acceleration.

So far there's 2 things on my mind:
1) Change only the car extractor for better flow. Reason for only choosing extractor is because I don't want my car to produce too much noise.
2) Install e-manage and tuning.

Which method mentioned above is better for low end acceleration improvement? If there is better methods please do let me know too.

Thank you.

What's the current mileage of your car ? Have you done a engine break-in ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break-in_(mechanical_run-in)

 

[D7zul]

Its a new car.. Do what satria81 suggested..

If its an old car, i can recommend a lot of things to do..

But in ur case.. Changing things might void ur warranty

 

[saru04]

Basically its a new car.

From the day I got it, its been that way.

I asked some people in a different forum and they told me the same thing. they say that from 0-30 is horrible.

It is smoother from 40 onwards.

I don't know if its my car or is it all that way.

I'm going back to Honda service center middle of January.

My mileage is approximately 500km.

Could it be my ECU haven't learn my driving style?

Some of my friends told me that the ECU needs to adapt to my driving.

I'm really confused and lost.

 

[satria81]

saru04,

look at it this way:

honda did not produce the car to perform in such a manner. make sense rite ?

i suggest to have it checked at a major honda service center at the earliest. i am sure there is something not in it's right state.

make sure the tone of communication will be understood by the service manager that you MUST have this rectified, or else they might just test your car and do some crap and come back to you saying that it is in normal state.

 

[6UE5t]

Bro saru04,

First you need to set your expectation right, what do you expect from a 1.5ltr A/T economy city car? Did you test drove one before you bought it? That test drive is the most important process before buying one to tell you what you can expect from it. If you didn't test drive one but straight away just bought it, then you may get mismatched expectation and disappointed. True that your car is still too new, you may need to wait till the run-in 1000km period is over before you draw a conclusion. Or you may ask for a test drive from Honda or if you got other friends who got one to confirm how you feel of it.

Anyway if you do still want to improve the low end torque, there are nothing much you can do (assuming the car is normal, especially since it's new) if you don't want to void the warranty. Changing air filter with drop-in one is possible (as you can easily put back the ori before service) but it won't improve noticeably. Changing extractors/exhaust system or adding piggy back ECU surely will void the warranty. So think carefully before you hastily mod your brand spanking new car.

 

[saru04]

I understand what you guys are saying.

I was told to remap my stock ECU.

And also one of my friend told me that there is a possibility that the stock ECU learn my driving style. When I first got the car up til now, I did not rev it at all. I kept it the RPM low. Could it affect the car in any way?

And may I also just ask, is it okay to rev your engine when your car is new? There are who say its okay and some say not good for engine.

 

[6UE5t]

I understand what you guys are saying.

I was told to remap my stock ECU.

And also one of my friend told me that there is a possibility that the stock ECU learn my driving style. When I first got the car up til now, I did not rev it at all. I kept it the RPM low. Could it affect the car in any way?

And may I also just ask, is it okay to rev your engine when your car is new? There are who say its okay and some say not good for engine.

You need to refer to what is recommended in the user guide or ask the service center what is the regular procedure for your car during the first 1000km, and follow that. Usually just drive normally, meaning you can still rev until mid range rpm (3000-4000). The idea behind not to rev it to the max during this period is because to allow the engine internals to settle in properly first, and also because there might be particles during manufacturing that might still be left in there.

You haven't answer my question though, did you test drive one before buying it?

 

[saru04]

Sorry forgot to answer that part.

No I did not test drive it but I sat in my uncle's Honda City before. His car model is EX or something I can't remember.

His car seems fine. Can't really recall. Need to test out with him.

 

[6UE5t]

Sorry forgot to answer that part.

No I did not test drive it but I sat in my uncle's Honda City before. His car model is EX or something I can't remember.

His car seems fine. Can't really recall. Need to test out with him.

As I suspect that's the problem actually. That's a big mistake in buying a car, how come you're willing to fork out such major expense without even testing it first? Even buying something much cheaper like TV, audio system, or mobile phones people always test first. Driving one and sitting as a passenger in one is not the same since you wouldn't exactly know how hard/deep your uncle pressed the gas that time. :) Yes, you better ask to test his car then.

 

[stupidcar]

Go compare with another same spec-ed car.
See how first.

 

[Supra_Fanatics]

Really Is like an arrange marriage... Dunno the girl but got arranged to marry her.

1st time come across no test drive, straight buy.

But then, I think you should let it reach the 1000km mileage 1st and see how it goes, since is still new. Unless you are comparing the low end with other cars that you have drove. Best test drive other Honda Citys and see if it feels the same, if not then get it check like recommended by others here.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Remember, Honda City is not using B16A or B16B... Old Hondas are powerful but not in today's new models. Unless FD2R, CL7, DC5....

 

[satria81]

Remember, Honda City is not using B16A or B16B... Old Hondas are powerful but not in today's new models. Unless FD2R, CL7, DC5....

i still remember those days in Batu Tiga circuit, the 16a's and B were havoc :)

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

Honda city never use B series engine...old or new, still not powerful..

B16B use for Civic Type R...today type R use 2.0L..

dont compare old vs new..

 

[saru04]

I'm not comparing old and new cos I do know the difference in power.

Part of me believe that its built this way and another part of me wants more out of it.

I'm going back to Honda service center but before that I really want to try out some other friend's car first.

 

[Izso]

I'm not comparing old and new cos I do know the difference in power.

Part of me believe that its built this way and another part of me wants more out of it.

I'm going back to Honda service center but before that I really want to try out some other friend's car first.

A couple of things I want to say :

1. 500km is still below full run-in mileage. Run in is supposedly 1000km. So rev the shit out of your car now to loosen up those piston rings. Take the opportunity to high rev it at every toll, every traffic light and every stop-start. Don't worry about breaking anything and hit that 1000km fast.

2. If after run-in your car still feels sluggish, one of the first things you should change that won't affect warranty (most likely) is your rims. Stock 195/50/16 or something like that rims are bloody heavy. Really really heavy. Get lightweight rims like the Advanti Storm series rims which weight only 4.7kg or something thereabouts. Or if you can afford original Japan rims get the Enkei RPF1 which are even lighter than the Advantis. That will make acceleration a huge difference already.

3. Lose weight. Remove unnecessary weight from the car like heavy ass subwoofers, junk from your last bbq/camping trip, etc. Weight is your enemy.

Lastly, get to know your car first. Its characteristics at the limit, how much punishment the tyres can take, how much bodyroll is too much body roll, etc. Once you understand the car, start modding bit by bit and you'll start to understand what each thing does. A simple change of lightweight rims first will do wonders. Then followed by ultrahigh performance tyres like the Federal RSR tyres or Yokohama AD08. Then chassis strengthening bars. When you really can pull out the full potential of your stock car then only start fiddling with the engine and exhaust.

Because if I were to give you a completely modded tricked out City with everything, you probably wouldn't know how to drive it properly or make full use of its potential.

 

[saru04]

That's a nice reply.

I already checked with few of my friends, they confirmed with me that it is the nature of Honda City to be sluggish. They say it will only be sluggish below 2.5k RPM. And its a different technology or something.

So for now I'm just going to rev my car and hope that it'll have some changes.

I'm planning to get Enkei RPF01 but not so soon. Don't plan to change full exhaust system cos it'll be too noisy. The most I'll just change extractor. But also not so soon.

Any stuff you can recommend? Feel free to drop me a PM if its not right to say it here.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

i still remember those days in Batu Tiga circuit, the 16a's and B were havoc :)

Till today they are still powerful. 160hp and 186hp for 1.6 litre engine. Compared with City's 1.5 litre with 117hp and Vios's 1NZ-FE with 107hp....

Honda city never use B series engine...old or new, still not powerful..

B16B use for Civic Type R...today type R use 2.0L..

dont compare old vs new..

I know that City never used B series engine. But one of the old one is using D series engine with SOHC VTEC. Coupled with manual transmission, that is still more powerful than those new City.

The modern Type R engine today is K20A....

I'm not comparing old and new cos I do know the difference in power.

Part of me believe that its built this way and another part of me wants more out of it.

I'm going back to Honda service center but before that I really want to try out some other friend's car first.

Well, when you have the new engine, you sacrificed power for fuel efficiency. Same goes for old engines, sacrificed fuel efficiency for power.

 

[g88]

Basically its a new car.

From the day I got it, its been that way.

I asked some people in a different forum and they told me the same thing. they say that from 0-30 is horrible.

It is smoother from 40 onwards.

I don't know if its my car or is it all that way.

I'm going back to Honda service center middle of January.

My mileage is approximately 500km.

Could it be my ECU haven't learn my driving style?

Some of my friends told me that the ECU needs to adapt to my driving.

I'm really confused and lost.

What you expect from a new born baby ? Can talk, walk and run ?? Do you engine break in FIRST then only talk...

engine break in doesn't mean ask you drive like mad down or floor the pedal like no body business...just drive a NORMAL but sometime give a little heavier footer to it....'TRAIN' the car...

Currently what i see is that all the parts and component of the car is still virgin and tight :proud:.....do you need to let it loosen bit then it will be smoother...usually most of the car after 10K km only be more optimum in term of power and fuel consumption....

A good way is drive outstation at highway...give a around 100-130km/h...dun street it till 150-180km/h...aside danger you also might get SAMAN

Errr.. i WONDER why you buy this car at the first place since you want more power and somehow knew is sluggish (test drive unit power very good ??)....

With the budget, u can get Cerato, Vios, Inspira, Preve.....what else ?

 

[saru04]

Well, currently "seasoning" the car. :D

Hope for improvement as you guys mentioned.

I went for City because its within my budget. I went for the middle spec City and Honda was giving rebates which makes it cheaper.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

What happens if you ask Honda to unlock the stock ECU?

Does it help in anything?

One of my friend told me to unlock it.

 

[Izso]

Well, currently "seasoning" the car. :D

Hope for improvement as you guys mentioned.

I went for City because its within my budget. I went for the middle spec City and Honda was giving rebates which makes it cheaper.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

What happens if you ask Honda to unlock the stock ECU?

Does it help in anything?

One of my friend told me to unlock it.

Unlock in what sense? Remove speedcut and remove rev cut? On a stock car? Not advisable.

 

[D7zul]

ECU have a preset programming 2 run ur car..

It get inputs from sensors such as oxygen, knocking sensors, etc

From d inputs it control fuel, spark timing, etc so that ur car runs normally

AFAIK, there's nothing to unlock

Paging ECU sifu mr levin818

 

[desmond0318]

Hi saru04, when you said sluggish my mind was wondering you comparing with what car? Odd thing is why compare 0-30 and not 0-100? I'd drove this car for a week last time 0-100 in 10-12sec is more than enough for a city daily drive.. Some of the old way that they do for sluggish feeling new car is go back to the SC ask them to adjust lighten for the accelerator pedal. Is just a driver's feeling afterall

 

[saru04]

I'm not too sure myself about the unlock thing.

I was just told to get back to SC and ask them to unlock ECU / unlock DVVT? No idea what it meant.

So called helps solve the problem.

As for the 0-30 I'm not comparing with at any car its just that from 0-30 its sluggish its like the car feels heavy.

 

[stupidcar]

Hi saru04, when you said sluggish my mind was wondering you comparing with what car? Odd thing is why compare 0-30 and not 0-100? I'd drove this car for a week last time 0-100 in 10-12sec is more than enough for a city daily drive.. Some of the old way that they do for sluggish feeling new car is go back to the SC ask them to adjust lighten for the accelerator pedal. Is just a driver's feeling afterall

Drive a Campro and feel the sluggishness and see.
U will be speechless.

 

[saru04]

I used to drive Gen 2 Campro IAFM and honestly, from 0-80 its smooth to me.

So if I were to compare with Campro IAFM, i think 0-30 for Honda City is worst than Gen 2. LOL.

But after 30, I would say Honda City over Gen 2.