Polyurethane Bushes

ace79

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ace79

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I am now contemplating to change most of the important bushes in my car [ Civic EG 3 door ]. I've thought about SuperPro as they relatively cheaper compared to, for example, Mugen bushes for my car. Apparently, one camp of thought is saying that SuperPro bushes ( which is produced using polyurethane ) is very good and lasts quite long. But another camp of thought says that polyurethane bushes actually bind and will not allow the suspension arms where you fit these bushes to rotate fully, therefore limiting travel and may cause the tyre to lose contact with the tarmac, and he propesed to me that I would be better off with Mugen's hard rubber bush. Last night, I tested a friend's EF that was fitted with a full Mugen bush for about half an hour, and I do find his car to feel very "tight" and controlled.

Any opinions between polyurethane or hard rubber bush guys? Reviews from anyone who used 'em is OK too. My car usage is for daily driver, sometimes fast road use, and monthly SIC trips.
 

Doink

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Doink

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not many ppl wants to pay such high price for PU bushes...cause there are many bushes around the parts of the wheel...
but if not wrong the feel is the same with the mugen...its more like having steels...replacing rubbers
 

ace79

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ace79

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Yes, the price is quite expensive ( and the installation costs also, since you hafta use a pressure machine to push out the old one and to get the new one in ), but you should get a tighter chassis that lasts longer than OEM, since OEM only feels tight for about 4 months and degrade slowly, faster if you go SIC often.

I don't think it feels like steel, it still allows suspension arms movement like normal, but the car do feel a lot tighter. My pal's EF hatchie's been fitted with a full Mugen bushings ( even the engine mountings too ) two years ago, but the car still feels tighter than mine, which I've just changed the whole bushings ( OEM ) 6 months ago.

Anyone else care to give a review, comment? :regular_smile:

Doink said:
not many ppl wants to pay such high price for PU bushes...cause there are many bushes around the parts of the wheel...
but if not wrong the feel is the same with the mugen...its more like having steels...replacing rubbers
 

shiroitenshi

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shiroitenshi

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Rubber doesn't need lubrication, PU does.

Rubber hardens.. PU gets brittle and breaks off in bits once they're dried out, if exposed to heat constantly.

That's why rubber mounts not cheap, and PU not that much more expensive compared to OEM.
 

chris2000

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chris2000

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Posted the below in your other thread in Honda forum but post it for you too.

Mugen bushes like Raliart bushes were initially designed for Group N racing where only rubber compound can be used. So these were made and because the compound are still not as solid as spherical bearing so it eventually was offered to street users wanting performance upgrade.

I don't know much about their suspension bushes, but i know their engine mountings are like Spoon and J's Racing which 20% stiffer than OEM.

Superpro bushes were design and intended for road performance use. They were so good that they eventually end up on race cars! And their proprietary blue colour were design to turn to black colour when expose to UV light. This is so that they look like OEM rubber and people use it for Group N racing. :)

Superpro bushes if you look closely has a lot of very fine features that were specifically design for road use to reduce NVH and increase wear life. Very hard to explain through the net, but if you interested in them do come by my place and i can show you the bushes with what is important specifically for the EG and you can decide from there.

Many of my friends cars running them for years on their road cars. My own track DC2 on Superpro went through 2 MMS round and MME in 2005 and 5 MMS round and MME in 2006 and easily 15 to 25 track days with them!!! AND i have not replace a single bush yet.

Hope this help.
 

chris2000

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chris2000

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shiroitenshi said:
Rubber doesn't need lubrication, PU does.

Rubber hardens.. PU gets brittle and breaks off in bits once they're dried out, if exposed to heat constantly.

That's why rubber mounts not cheap, and PU not that much more expensive compared to OEM.

Superpro PU bushes does not need constant lubrication if the bushes were 1st install properly. If you have seen the superpro bushes and the fine engineering details in them you will understand better what i'm trying to say.

Nevertheless, i have heard people saying needing to lubricate PU bushes and when i ask them what brand it is, chances it is not Superpro.

PU gets brittle when expose to high heat, but in the lower carriage or suspension arms, they are normally not expose to high heat so they actually hardly become brittle.

One more thing you guys have to understand, NOT ALL PU are the same. They have different compound and formulation to give different Shore grades that determine hardness..
 

ace79

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Yeah, rubber hardens. But OEM bushes, ah, dunno what else to say lah. Just changed the whole front less than 6 months ago, and now, some of them feels loose ( the front end feels a bit loose ), and the rear, argh! Dunno what else to say lah, made me park my car at the kitten litter at Turn 12 + 13.

But one of my SIC sifus have said that with full new bushes, either SuperPro's or Mugen's, I can easily cut off another 4 - 5 seconds. Coilovers done to me spec, another 3 - 4 seconds off! Whoa! Now I know why Ichishima - san says brakes, suspension and chassis tweaks will bring the best out of EGs!

shiroitenshi said:
Rubber doesn't need lubrication, PU does.

Rubber hardens.. PU gets brittle and breaks off in bits once they're dried out, if exposed to heat constantly.

That's why rubber mounts not cheap, and PU not that much more expensive compared to OEM.
 

ace79

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ace79

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Okay, so if the SuperPro's do not need constant lubrication, just one lube - work ( the one done while installing the bushes ) is enough?

One thing I know is there are diff grades of P/U, according to my old man lah.

chris2000 said:
Superpro PU bushes does not need constant lubrication if the bushes were 1st install properly. If you have seen the superpro bushes and the fine engineering details in them you will understand better what i'm trying to say.

Nevertheless, i have heard people saying needing to lubricate PU bushes and when i ask them what brand it is, chances it is not Superpro.

PU gets brittle when expose to high heat, but in the lower carriage or suspension arms, they are normally not expose to high heat so they actually hardly become brittle.

One more thing you guys have to understand, NOT ALL PU are the same. They have different compound and formulation to give different Shore grades that determine hardness..
 

JaSON5878

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JaSON5878

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PU actually having better elongation spec compared to rubber, that mean it won't easily break compared to rubber. So that mean your bushes can last longer compared to rubber. But the PU price expensive, that by most of the car maker still using rubber.

For the stiff feeling, it just depend on the core hardness spec (Hs) of the material. If both of the PU& rubber having same hardness, then you still can enjoy OEM feeling.

Mostly stiff bushes giving a good handling of the car, but not for comfort. But bare in mind once all the bushes stiffer than the OEM spec, your absorber will be the first item to break down.
 

ace79

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ace79

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Thank you for your input! Yeah, that's why after I fit 'em SuperPro's I'll go for servicable dampers.

JaSON5878 said:
PU actually having better elongation spec compared to rubber, that mean it won't easily break compared to rubber. So that mean your bushes can last longer compared to rubber. But the PU price expensive, that by most of the car maker still using rubber.

For the stiff feeling, it just depend on the core hardness spec (Hs) of the material. If both of the PU& rubber having same hardness, then you still can enjoy OEM feeling.

Mostly stiff bushes giving a good handling of the car, but not for comfort. But bare in mind once all the bushes stiffer than the OEM spec, your absorber will be the first item to break down.
 
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