Elantra Sport

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 8, 2010
6,539
1,253
713
Kuala Lumpur
At that kinda asking price I would look at the used Golf GTi... sit inside, feel how solid the door closes, and forget about the 86/BRZ.
I don't want the headache of VW issues even the lesser problematic GTI, plus it's just another automatic FWD hatch with more power, granted it's a good handling one. I'd take the manual 86 anytime any day over the GTI. Power is easier to make if I want to make the 86 as fast as a GTI in a straight line but the GTI will never be able to do what a well balanced RWD can do. Oh and I'm not so much about luxury and how solid the door close sound, maybe that's why I still yet to own a European car.
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
I don't want the headache of VW issues even the lesser problematic GTI, plus it's just another automatic FWD hatch with more power, granted it's a good handling one. I'd take the manual 86 anytime any day over the GTI. Power is easier to make if I want to make the 86 as fast as a GTI in a straight line but the GTI will never be able to do what a well balanced RWD can do. Oh and I'm not so much about luxury and how solid the door close sound, maybe that's why I still yet to own a European car.
Well first off the GTi is a jack of all trades, master of none. But if you're comparing FWD vs RWD I would strongly disagree here. The RWD vs FWD difference is no longer that apparent (in terms of handling/cornering performance).. of course FWD will never FEEL like a RWD.

Look at the current crop of CTR, Megane, Golf GTi, all FWD cars, but with the super intelligent electronics, these bad boys can give RWD and AWD platforms a run for the money.

Let's talk facts, Top Gear's track is a tight technical track, where cornering matters as much as power. The two closest cars in terms of horsepower and weight is these two:
The BMW M135i 315hp 450nM 8 speed auto clocked 01:25.1
The Honda CTR FK8, 316hp 400nM 6 speed manual, clocked 01:25.6

And these are subjective opinions of Mr.Clarkson
 

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 8, 2010
6,539
1,253
713
Kuala Lumpur
Well first off the GTi is a jack of all trades, master of none. But if you're comparing FWD vs RWD I would strongly disagree here. The RWD vs FWD difference is no longer that apparent (in terms of handling/cornering performance).. of course FWD will never FEEL like a RWD.

Look at the current crop of CTR, Megane, Golf GTi, all FWD cars, but with the super intelligent electronics, these bad boys can give RWD and AWD platforms a run for the money.

Let's talk facts, Top Gear's track is a tight technical track, where cornering matters as much as power. The two closest cars in terms of horsepower and weight is these two:
The BMW M135i 315hp 450nM 8 speed auto clocked 01:25.1
The Honda CTR FK8, 316hp 400nM 6 speed manual, clocked 01:25.6

And these are subjective opinions of Mr.Clarkson
Well "feel" is exactly what I meant, not about lap times. It's different kind of fun which the FWD will never be able to give.
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
Well "feel" is exactly what I meant, not about lap times. It's different kind of fun which the FWD will never be able to give.
And some would argue RWD will never match how a Type R claw through corners.

To me, RWD definitely feels different from a FWD, it’s very apparent but I can’t describe the sensation. But at the same time I will be very honest that I’m afraid if I step on the happy pedal more I’ll lose my tail and spin out. My subconscious mind is always aware of this. Whereas in a FWD, I’ll just mash the happy pedal, and in case it runs wide I can brake and correct.

Having experienced both FWD and RWD, I would honestly say I don’t mind living with a well executed FWD like the Golf GTi.
 

s.marz

Known Member

s.marz

Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
261
24
28
Kuala Lumpur
Well first off the GTi is a jack of all trades, master of none. But if you're comparing FWD vs RWD I would strongly disagree here. The RWD vs FWD difference is no longer that apparent (in terms of handling/cornering performance).. of course FWD will never FEEL like a RWD.

Look at the current crop of CTR, Megane, Golf GTi, all FWD cars, but with the super intelligent electronics, these bad boys can give RWD and AWD platforms a run for the money.

Let's talk facts, Top Gear's track is a tight technical track, where cornering matters as much as power. The two closest cars in terms of horsepower and weight is these two:
The BMW M135i 315hp 450nM 8 speed auto clocked 01:25.1
The Honda CTR FK8, 316hp 400nM 6 speed manual, clocked 01:25.6

And these are subjective opinions of Mr.Clarkson
I just watched Chris Harris's review on the MK7GTI the other day and he mentioned that if you are getting DSG in the GTI, you're crossing the M135i territory (priced wise). For the money honestly the M135i offers a much better car overall. Power, handling & fun is there and well as the video showed, you're only losing practicality.

Sure you can carve corners with a FWD as well as a RWD but the experience is just different.

And some would argue RWD will never match how a Type R claw through corners.

To me, RWD definitely feels different from a FWD, it’s very apparent but I can’t describe the sensation. But at the same time I will be very honest that I’m afraid if I step on the happy pedal more I’ll lose my tail and spin out. My subconscious mind is always aware of this. Whereas in a FWD, I’ll just mash the happy pedal, and in case it runs wide I can brake and correct.

Having experienced both FWD and RWD, I would honestly say I don’t mind living with a well executed FWD like the Golf GTi.
Well there's always the Golf GTI Clubsport if the regluar GTI doesn't cut it.
 

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 8, 2010
6,539
1,253
713
Kuala Lumpur
And some would argue RWD will never match how a Type R claw through corners.

To me, RWD definitely feels different from a FWD, it’s very apparent but I can’t describe the sensation. But at the same time I will be very honest that I’m afraid if I step on the happy pedal more I’ll lose my tail and spin out. My subconscious mind is always aware of this. Whereas in a FWD, I’ll just mash the happy pedal, and in case it runs wide I can brake and correct.

Having experienced both FWD and RWD, I would honestly say I don’t mind living with a well executed FWD like the Golf GTi.
Well that's exactly the fun that I meant, not just flat out cornering fast but how to go corner fast while at the same time being mindful that the rear end can bite you back, and your ability to catch it back inline if it steps out. In FWD most of the time it will just understeer (unless you enter too fast), that's why more boring and I'm not so interested anymore in FWD. Having said so though, my sons Swift is really good fun to drive and very neutral handling for a FWD where the tail might also step out if I go a bit too fast thru the corners or S bends (but the Swift is just still very traditional car without any of those driver's assistance to maintain traction). If I want to corner as fast as possible without thinking much then I'll just get an AWD instead of FWD (which I'm also very interested to get if I change car). So yeah, GTI vs 86, I will take the 86 any time any day.
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
I just watched Chris Harris's review on the MK7GTI the other day and he mentioned that if you are getting DSG in the GTI, you're crossing the M135i territory (priced wise). For the money honestly the M135i offers a much better car overall. Power, handling & fun is there and well as the video showed, you're only losing practicality.

Sure you can carve corners with a FWD as well as a RWD but the experience is just different.



Well there's always the Golf GTI Clubsport if the regluar GTI doesn't cut it.
I think M135i not sold here so irrelevant? Haha. Honestly I do like the Golf GTi as it truly is well rounded, even my mom could drive it.

Well that's exactly the fun that I meant, not just flat out cornering fast but how to go corner fast while at the same time being mindful that the rear end can bite you back, and your ability to catch it back inline if it steps out. In FWD most of the time it will just understeer (unless you enter too fast), that's why more boring and I'm not so interested anymore in FWD. Having said so though, my sons Swift is really good fun to drive and very neutral handling for a FWD where the tail might also step out if I go a bit too fast thru the corners or S bends (but the Swift is just still very traditional car without any of those driver's assistance to maintain traction). If I want to corner as fast as possible without thinking much then I'll just get an AWD instead of FWD (which I'm also very interested to get if I change car). So yeah, GTI vs 86, I will take the 86 any time any day.
I have no intention of testing my skills to try and catch the tail back on the RWD.

Honestly the only AWD rally star left is the Subaru WRX STi, which didn’t fare too well against the FWD on a track. If anything, I would consider it kena tapao

 

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 8, 2010
6,539
1,253
713
Kuala Lumpur
I think M135i not sold here so irrelevant? Haha. Honestly I do like the Golf GTi as it truly is well rounded, even my mom could drive it.



I have no intention of testing my skills to try and catch the tail back on the RWD.

Honestly the only AWD rally star left is the Subaru WRX STi, which didn’t fare too well against the FWD on a track. If anything, I would consider it kena tapao

Again it's not just about lap times for me. It will be a never ending battle if we keep chasing lap times and trying to be the fastest car coz some day there will be faster ones always. Just like the hyper hatch, when A45 came along, it was the fastest but then Audi released the RS3 which is faster still. But yet I have no interest whatsoever for an RS3 but I still like the A45. Anyway that's just talk c**k, who got the biggest d**k kinda thing that "hey I got the fastest car now" while in actual practice on the road, even if you have the faster car, you still might not be able to beat the other guy with the slower car if they are the better and ballsier drivers. Heck the old Evo 9 if driven well can still keep up or outgun those modern hyper hatches going up/down Genting if those are not driven as properly.

Subaru STI is also never in my dream list except for the old ultra rare 22B which I will never ever be able to own.
 

vr2turbo

Beyond 20,000 RPM!
Helmet Clan
Moderator

vr2turbo

Beyond 20,000 RPM!
Helmet Clan
Moderator
May 11, 2010
29,551
8,256
1,713
Petaling Jaya
Again it's not just about lap times for me. It will be a never ending battle if we keep chasing lap times and trying to be the fastest car coz some day there will be faster ones always. Just like the hyper hatch, when A45 came along, it was the fastest but then Audi released the RS3 which is faster still. But yet I have no interest whatsoever for an RS3 but I still like the A45. Anyway that's just talk c**k, who got the biggest d**k kinda thing that "hey I got the fastest car now" while in actual practice on the road, even if you have the faster car, you still might not be able to beat the other guy with the slower car if they are the better and ballsier drivers. Heck the old Evo 9 if driven well can still keep up or outgun those modern hyper hatches going up/down Genting if those are not driven as properly.

Subaru STI is also never in my dream list except for the old ultra rare 22B which I will never ever be able to own.
Like the video, a few love the Hyundai even though is the slowest....
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
Again it's not just about lap times for me. It will be a never ending battle if we keep chasing lap times and trying to be the fastest car coz some day there will be faster ones always. Just like the hyper hatch, when A45 came along, it was the fastest but then Audi released the RS3 which is faster still. But yet I have no interest whatsoever for an RS3 but I still like the A45. Anyway that's just talk c**k, who got the biggest d**k kinda thing that "hey I got the fastest car now" while in actual practice on the road, even if you have the faster car, you still might not be able to beat the other guy with the slower car if they are the better and ballsier drivers. Heck the old Evo 9 if driven well can still keep up or outgun those modern hyper hatches going up/down Genting if those are not driven as properly.

Subaru STI is also never in my dream list except for the old ultra rare 22B which I will never ever be able to own.
And everything you say is true. Which is again why I consider the Golf GTi the benchmark. It’s not the fastest, not the most powerful, not the best handling, in fact it leads in almost nothing compared to its peers. But as an overall package it’s suitable for almost everyone.

Put an average joe in a RWD he might spin out. Put him in a CTR he don’t have the skill to claw around corners.

But I think the lap times is a good indicator that FWD are no longer inferior to its RWD or AWD cousins round corners anymore. So there’s no longer an argument that RWD is better in cornering, other than the sensation it gives.

But for drag race AWD always wins.
 

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member

6UE5t

6,000 RPM
Senior Member
Oct 8, 2010
6,539
1,253
713
Kuala Lumpur
And everything you say is true. Which is again why I consider the Golf GTi the benchmark. It’s not the fastest, not the most powerful, not the best handling, in fact it leads in almost nothing compared to its peers. But as an overall package it’s suitable for almost everyone.

Put an average joe in a RWD he might spin out. Put him in a CTR he don’t have the skill to claw around corners.

But I think the lap times is a good indicator that FWD are no longer inferior to its RWD or AWD cousins round corners anymore. So there’s no longer an argument that RWD is better in cornering, other than the sensation it gives.

But for drag race AWD always wins.
Yes the GTI is suitable for almost everyone but it doesn't make it that much desirable or exciting to me, coz I just don't feel it as a special car even though it's great at doing almost everything. Honestly I almost spun my slow Mark X a few times especially in the wet but that just gave me goose bumps, scared yet also relieved and excited at the same time, followed by having a laugh afterwards! It's like driving a manual car also, I'm really enjoying it now with the Swift, even though its not as smooth or as fast and as easy as driving an auto, yet it's more exciting and fun for me. The analogy to food is like my love for very spicy food. When eating a tasty yet very spicy food, it kinda torture and challenge you a bit until sweat keep pouring from your head but its so deliciously good that you cannot stop eating it! :biggrin:

FWD still has the inherent limitation in the amount of power it can deliver efficiently coz the front wheels have to multitask. That's why the FWD are still stuck around 300hp level right? Try put 400, 500, 600 or more hp engine in a FWD car and see if it can still handle as well as the AWD and RWD cars.
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
Yes the GTI is suitable for almost everyone but it doesn't make it that much desirable or exciting to me, coz I just don't feel it as a special car even though it's great at doing almost everything. Honestly I almost spun my slow Mark X a few times especially in the wet but that just gave me goose bumps, scared yet also relieved and excited at the same time, followed by having a laugh afterwards! It's like driving a manual car also, I'm really enjoying it now with the Swift, even though its not as smooth or as fast and as easy as driving an auto, yet it's more exciting and fun for me. The analogy to food is like my love for very spicy food. When eating a tasty yet very spicy food, it kinda torture and challenge you a bit until sweat keep pouring from your head but its so deliciously good that you cannot stop eating it! :biggrin:
upload_2018-10-7_22-42-25.jpeg


FWD still has the inherent limitation in the amount of power it can deliver efficiently coz the front wheels have to multitask. That's why the FWD are still stuck around 300hp level right? Try put 400, 500, 600 or more hp engine in a FWD car and see if it can still handle as well as the AWD and RWD cars.
Good point. No stock factory car have breached 400hp on a FWD. Maybe it’s possible in the future, maybe not. Who knows. Electric cars seems to be RWD if it’s not AWD.
 

stutzedward

3,000 RPM
Senior Member

stutzedward

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
May 27, 2009
3,416
560
1,713
KL
Passat Highline has exactly the same drive terrain as Golf GTi and priced considerably lower. Any comments about this ride? Seems pretty luxury d-segment with lots of features and drives fast too.
 

s.marz

Known Member

s.marz

Known Member
Aug 10, 2016
261
24
28
Kuala Lumpur
Passat Highline has exactly the same drive terrain as Golf GTi and priced considerably lower. Any comments about this ride? Seems pretty luxury d-segment with lots of features and drives fast too.
Go for it, drove once (albeit short ride) but it's really nice ride tho doesn't drive as sharp as the MK7GTI. Perfect combo with that drivetrain, plenty of potential & simple remap will unleash the beast within.
Honestly it's a bargain if you don't consider RV & aftersales.
VWOCM has a big following and they actually assist you if you have issues with SC, go check them out on FB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stutzedward

stupidcar

5,000 RPM

stupidcar

5,000 RPM
Mar 18, 2013
5,534
834
713
Kuala Lumpur
Passat Highline has exactly the same drive terrain as Golf GTi and priced considerably lower. Any comments about this ride? Seems pretty luxury d-segment with lots of features and drives fast too.
Come VW Selayang. Im working there as marketing. If u want, get the 2.0, its really so much better than the ol Camry/accord/mazda6. Also got the chance to whack it at SIC at full throttle on corners. On standstill u can wheelspin abit on second gear.

Also its a bargain now with no SST(ya they extended it).
 

stutzedward

3,000 RPM
Senior Member

stutzedward

3,000 RPM
Senior Member
May 27, 2009
3,416
560
1,713
KL
Come VW Selayang. Im working there as marketing. If u want, get the 2.0, its really so much better than the ol Camry/accord/mazda6. Also got the chance to whack it at SIC at full throttle on corners. On standstill u can wheelspin abit on second gear.

Also its a bargain now with no SST(ya they extended it).
It's over-budget for me at this point. Unless I wait till mid next year but like you said, the no-SST offer ends in November.

Do you mean to say you can take-off on second gear from standstill?
 

stupidcar

5,000 RPM

stupidcar

5,000 RPM
Mar 18, 2013
5,534
834
713
Kuala Lumpur
It's over-budget for me at this point. Unless I wait till mid next year but like you said, the no-SST offer ends in November.

Do you mean to say you can take-off on second gear from standstill?
First gear they shift early to prevent wheelspin probably. But second gear they let it be. Then all the electronics kick in.
350nm is fun. Now the discounts are crazy from VW.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stutzedward

Izso

Boooooossst
Helmet Clan
Moderator

Izso

Boooooossst
Helmet Clan
Moderator
Mar 28, 2004
14,990
6,304
5,213
KL
This is why I miss forums.

I like how Hyundai Elantra turns into GTI/VW/FWD/AWD/RWD talk.
 

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member

ixeo

4,000 RPM
Senior Member
Jun 26, 2005
4,691
3,020
3,213
KL, Malaysia
Passat Highline has exactly the same drive terrain as Golf GTi and priced considerably lower. Any comments about this ride? Seems pretty luxury d-segment with lots of features and drives fast too.
It's basically a Passat GTi. But the price is way above your budget. Other than the Golf GTi its the only other VW with a wet 6 speed transmission. And they are the only 2 I would ever consider buying. The rest are all on dry 7 speed if i am not mistaken.

Passat is comfortable. I'd rank its interior above all the Japanese marques. Classy and clean, more like BMW than Mercedes in that utilitarian sense.