Brake upgrade, Lancer CS3A

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jay_lancer

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Hi

Since my Lancer Engine swap I feel I should do a brake upgrade.

I am lucky that my lancer already has fairly good brakes, with rear disks but I now have about 60% more BHP.

On the back I think I can just put upgraded brake pads but I would like to go bigger on the front.

Current standard set up is 276 MM vented as per here:



I am running 16 inch wheels (which I would like to keep), although the stock wheels were 15 inch, there is still not much clearance on the stock single piston brake calipers:



I take it if I went for different calipers such as 4 pots (maybe from a skyline R32) or 2 pots (maybe from a FTO or Spacewagon, would I have more clearance?

Has anyone done a similar upgrade and what did you do?

cheers
 

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6UE5t

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If you used 4 pots, you'd probably have smaller clearance but still ok as long as there is still clearance.
 

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why not just get a twin pot caliper from an evo instead of going 4 pots? :driver:
Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers
 

6UE5t

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why not just get a twin pot caliper from an evo instead of going 4 pots? :driver:
Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers
Yes agree, should be enough just using 2 pot calipers from Evo I-III. But of course if can afford 4 pot and can fit then no harm either.
 

jay_lancer

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Yes agree, should be enough just using 2 pot calipers from Evo I-III. But of course if can afford 4 pot and can fit then no harm either.
Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers
 
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sanekit

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Hi, Which model EVO use twin pot calipers? most EVO calipers I see use Brembo 4 pots but expensive,

Sounds like that would be a good compromise do you know the brake rotor size for this set up?

cheers
Evo 1-3. I think evo 4 also use 2 pot. Rotor should clear nicely on your 16"
 

sanekit

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Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers
4x114.3 pcd
 

6UE5t

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Thanks for the reply, will look at the front brake set up used on the Evo 3, do you know the size of the brake disk rotors and the PCD of the wheel studs they use?

My car uses 114.3 PCD with 4 wheel studs, the later Evo's 4 onward have the same PCD but 5 studs as far as I know. Expecting to have to go to a shop to get caliper mountings adapters made, and possibly re drill the rotor holes if I have to, but the less fabricating the better.

I have read the Nissan Skyline r32 gtr uses 296mm rotors as stock and runs 16 inch wheels as stock so I should I guess I should be able to upgrade close to this size for the rotors depending on how much more room the calipers need, my current stock single pot ones do seem to take up a lot of extra clearance as per the pics I posted.

cheers
Street version of Evo I-III were using 4x114.3 PCD. If R32 then 5x114.3.
 

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Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....:driver:
 

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Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....:driver:
Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers
 

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Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers
You can groove them but do not drill! Coz drilling actually does not do anything to improve your braking but actually makes your rotors more prone to cracking.

Other things that will further improve your braking are:
- change your brake hose to stainless steel braided ones. This will firm up your pedal feel a bit more as it reduces the flexing/bulging of the brake hose when under pressure.
- use DOT 5.1 brake fluid (do not mistaken with DOT 5 ya, that's not compatible!). Can use Bendix 5.1, much cheaper than Motul 5.1. This will reduce the risk of fading on hard driving as the fluid can withstand higher operating temp.
 

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Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers
Performance pads for street will do, don't get racing pads, those that are real high temperature ones, as for street use you don't need that high. Most high temperature pads needs warming up and do not bite when cold. Of course if you can find high temperature pads that bites when cold then get them but should be costly......lol
 

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i got a direct plug n play wilwood 4pot, call me if u interested , will clear 16"

call 012-3200032
 

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Twin ports should do, but get better pads. Also try getting those that can plug and play rather then need to mod further, less headache.....lol
My VR are twin ports, pads same as Pajero V6, probably same as in Evo 1 to 3 also....:driver:
pajero v6 is slightly bigger then evo 3..consider it as oversize brake kit..but twin pot...using at your lancer should be better..lancer lighter than pajero..

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

I will get performance pads all round, and look at getting twin pot calapers

Do you think there is much advantage in getting upgraded rotors like the drilled or grooved ones for road use?

cheers
better groove then drill..

You can groove them but do not drill! Coz drilling actually does not do anything to improve your braking but actually makes your rotors more prone to cracking.

Other things that will further improve your braking are:
- change your brake hose to stainless steel braided ones. This will firm up your pedal feel a bit more as it reduces the flexing/bulging of the brake hose when under pressure.
- use DOT 5.1 brake fluid (do not mistaken with DOT 5 ya, that's not compatible!). Can use Bendix 5.1, much cheaper than Motul 5.1. This will reduce the risk of fading on hard driving as the fluid can withstand higher operating temp.
this..dont just upgrade the caliper and rotor only...but most important is good tyre set, no matter how good your brake are..thats the only part of your car contact with the road..:driver::burnout:

unless turn turtle, diff story:rofl:
 

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...this..dont just upgrade the caliper and rotor only...but most important is good tyre set, no matter how good your brake are..thats the only part of your car contact with the road..:driver::burnout:

unless turn turtle, diff story:rofl:
Yup of course, tires is always important, it's the most important!
 

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Current standard set up is 276 MM vented as per here:

I take it if I went for different calipers such as 4 pots (maybe from a skyline R32) or 2 pots (maybe from a FTO or Spacewagon, would I have more clearance?

Has anyone done a similar upgrade and what did you do?

cheers
I've had experience with the R32 Skyline 4-pot. It's not a problem to fit a 16" rim, the problem is your offset. 40 offset won't clear it. I used a 5mm spacer to give it some breathing space (too damn close if you ask me) on a 17" rim.

Personally I wouldn't go to the R32 route because the oil reservoir inside this caliper is large, it'll affect your braking pedal feel, probably will drop a significant amount. I ended up not using it on my Sylphy because it was hard to modulate the pedal feel and it kinda gave me on-off brakes. I was using stock Nissan Sylphy servo. Unless you plan to swap out your servo as well? Master cylinder / Brake pump / whatever you call it.
 

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I've had experience with the R32 Skyline 4-pot. It's not a problem to fit a 16" rim, the problem is your offset. 40 offset won't clear it. I used a 5mm spacer to give it some breathing space (too damn close if you ask me) on a 17" rim.

Personally I wouldn't go to the R32 route because the oil reservoir inside this caliper is large, it'll affect your braking pedal feel, probably will drop a significant amount. I ended up not using it on my Sylphy because it was hard to modulate the pedal feel and it kinda gave me on-off brakes. I was using stock Nissan Sylphy servo. Unless you plan to swap out your servo as well? Master cylinder / Brake pump / whatever you call it.
Thanks for the feedback, there are a few guys in Thailand running the R32 skyline 4-pot setup, but I have no desire to change my master cylinder, especially because the hydraulic's on my car are linked to the clutch operation also so messing with this could create more issues. I think many just do it to get the 4 pot look on a budget.

I am looking to improve performance and feel (over looks), so thanks to your advise I will forget this idea.

Will probably look at costing out the different Mitsu 2 pot set ups, unless I can find a really good deal on aftermarket or Evo 5+ brembo 4 pots. (@samngcheesan I will PM you nearer the time I am ready to move forward, I am in Thailand but visit KL sometimes)

4 pots might be overkill for what I need though, I guess I am running now about 160 BHP +/- so less that an Evo 3/4 with similar weight. Even if I boost or mod my 4G92 Mivec more I won't be looking for big power much more, the concept of my car is to make it a fun car to drive within the limits of the roads in Thailand, not a power monster (if I had wanted that I would have saved a little more and swapped to a 4G63 Turbo).

New tires and up-rated brake hoses are also on my agenda for this year as well as up-rated hydraulic fluid and up-rated brake pads all round. Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers
 

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... Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers
I have been using Project Mu Type NS (400 deg) and now B-Spec (550 deg) and pretty happy with them especially the later one. Other popular option is Endless but I've never tried it, similar price range as Project Mu. But if you can still get EBC for your car then that should be very good too.
 

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4 pots might be overkill for what I need though, I guess I am running now about 160 BHP +/- so less that an Evo 3/4 with similar weight. Even if I boost or mod my 4G92 Mivec more I won't be looking for big power much more, the concept of my car is to make it a fun car to drive within the limits of the roads in Thailand, not a power monster (if I had wanted that I would have saved a little more and swapped to a 4G63 Turbo).

New tires and up-rated brake hoses are also on my agenda for this year as well as up-rated hydraulic fluid and up-rated brake pads all round. Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers
There's no such thing as overkill for brakes. Unless you're looking at 6-pot or 10-pot calipers, then yeah. But if the car weight justifies the brakes, then it's not overkill bro. My paltry Nissan Sylphy barely had 130hp on wheel and it was CVT auto. I initially used the R32 4-pots and it helped my braking a lot. Just that the pedals were too low and that bothered me a lot. I eventually swapped to AP Racing R 5000 calipers, ultra lightweight, small oil reservoir inside the caliper, staggered pistons (2 big 2 small pistons) meaning the braking was very easily modulated, it made the car so easy to drive. It even poisoned the new owner of my ex-car but I wasn't willing to part with the brakes yet. Keeping it for future use. If your car is heavy, 4-pot upgrades are a good idea regardless of power.

Steel braided hoses will improve brake pedal feel. Good fluids will help but probably won't be obvious unless you're a heavy footer/track goer. I cooked my DOT4 Bosch brake fluid sometime ago in my earlier ex-car and had to stop the car by the side of the road to get back my brakes (it totally sunk the pedal all the way in). After swapping to better fluids and DOT5.1, I didn't have anymore boiling issues.

If you can afford EBC, you can't go wrong with EBC. Otherwise there's Ultrex and lots of good pad brands you can go with. Ferodo racing NOT RECOMMENDED though. Dry (regardless cold or hot) grip awesome, once it's wet there's almost no grip. Ferodo Zero is nice though but aren't performance pads.
 

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pajero v6 is slightly bigger then evo 3..consider it as oversize brake kit..but twin pot...using at your lancer should be better..lancer lighter than pajero..
The caliper bigger? But same brake pads, right? My VR using the same size brake pads as the Pajero V6
 

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New tires and up-rated brake hoses are also on my agenda for this year as well as up-rated hydraulic fluid and up-rated brake pads all round. Used EBC pads in the past in the UK, can anyone recommend what is a good up-rated performance road brake pad popular in Asia?

cheers
You should be able to find EBC in Thailand, if not get from Malaysia.....lol
 

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T I eventually swapped to AP Racing R 5000 calipers, ultra lightweight, small oil reservoir inside the caliper, staggered pistons (2 big 2 small pistons) meaning the braking was very easily modulated, it made the car so easy to drive. It even poisoned the new owner of my ex-car but I wasn't willing to part with the brakes yet. Keeping it for future use. If your car is heavy, 4-pot upgrades are a good idea regardless of power.
.
how much is that? if you dont mind :adore:

The caliper bigger? But same brake pads, right? My VR using the same size brake pads as the Pajero V6
nope..pad are not the same. slightly bigger too vs evo3...i know this last week when i met my mechanic. :listen:
 

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nope..pad are not the same. slightly bigger too vs evo3...i know this last week when i met my mechanic. :listen:
That means the Evo 3 brakes went smaller? I thought they would have improve further from VR upwards....:smokin:

Just double checked, I think depends on what year of V6 too. 1991 to 2000 shares the same brakes from VR4 to Evo4. Evo5 to Evo8 depends whether using Akebono or Brembo. Akebone ones also using same size, Brembo ones differ....
 
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Jay, my stock 4g93t still running stock brake disc, caliper. No problem at all. My proton wira weight is lighter lah. Just get good pads as suggested for a starter.
Its single piston but big, recently i change to HAWK brake pads, working fine.
Yup get a good tires, uncle VR2turbo will gladly help you.
 

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Jay, my stock 4g93t still running stock brake disc, caliper. No problem at all. My proton wira weight is lighter lah. Just get good pads as suggested for a starter.
Its single piston but big, recently i change to HAWK brake pads, working fine.
Yup get a good tires, uncle VR2turbo will gladly help you.
He knows his tyres leh! Now using Michelin PS3 205/50ZR16 87W, only a bit old dated 0913, more than 4 years already.....:smokin:
 

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Jay, my stock 4g93t still running stock brake disc, caliper. No problem at all. My proton wira weight is lighter lah. Just get good pads as suggested for a starter.
Its single piston but big, recently i change to HAWK brake pads, working fine.
Yup get a good tires, uncle VR2turbo will gladly help you.
My stock single piston calipers are also big, and the brake disc rotor seems to be the same size as an EVO 3 which is probably has about 100 BHP+ more than my car, (all be it a slightly lighter chassis) so I am thinking maybe keep the stock caliper like you would be OK a and upgrade the pads to fast road spec, maybe the front disc rotors some some the same size but with cooling grooves, the brake lines to braided lines and the fluid to DOT 5.1, and saving from not upgrading calipers to put towards new tires.

thanks to everyone for the helpful replies.
 

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He knows his tyres leh! Now using Michelin PS3 205/50ZR16 87W, only a bit old dated 0913, more than 4 years already.....:smokin:
I don't trust the tires I am currently running really, the tread is OK and Michelin is a decent brand but they came with the used Enkei wheels I bought, so I will buy new tires soon.

Thinking getting the car re-tracked and changing the spring compression rate on the back coil overs first (the back suspension seems too stiff and the back bounces when on uneven roads now) now the engine swap is done and once I am happy fitting new tires all round.

If I took the car to a shop to do a brake upgrade that involved custom fabrication I would want to get the tracking rechecked but at this stage I will probably go for just pad upgrade, stock size rotor upgrade, brake line and hydraulic fluid upgrades which should not affect tracking, so will get new tires soon, just waiting for payday :proud:

cheers
 

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I don't trust the tires I am currently running really, the tread is OK and Michelin is a decent brand but they came with the used Enkei wheels I bought, so I will buy new tires soon.

Thinking getting the car re-tracked and changing the spring compression rate on the back coil overs first (the back suspension seems too stiff and the back bounces when on uneven roads now) now the engine swap is done and once I am happy fitting new tires all round.

If I took the car to a shop to do a brake upgrade that involved custom fabrication I would want to get the tracking rechecked but at this stage I will probably go for just pad upgrade, stock size rotor upgrade, brake line and hydraulic fluid upgrades which should not affect tracking, so will get new tires soon, just waiting for payday :proud:

cheers
The Michelin PS3 are actually pretty good. Maybe because yours are pass 4 years old the rubber compound have harden and now giving you less traction and comfort. The new PS4 do have in your size if you are thinking of upgrading the tyres. Quite a few choices for you like Bridgestone RE-003 also but PS4 are the latest....:driver:
 

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The Michelin PS3 are actually pretty good. Maybe because yours are pass 4 years old the rubber compound have harden and now giving you less traction and comfort. The new PS4 do have in your size if you are thinking of upgrading the tyres. Quite a few choices for you like Bridgestone RE-003 also but PS4 are the latest....:driver:
I just feel partly because of age and partly because they are used from Japan and I don't know their history I don't want to risk pushing them too hard, and will change them soon. The used wheels they came on are in very good condition though which should be a good sign.

cheers
 

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I don't trust the tires I am currently running really, the tread is OK and Michelin is a decent brand but they came with the used Enkei wheels I bought, so I will buy new tires soon.
...
cheers
The Michelin PS3 are actually pretty good. Maybe because yours are pass 4 years old the rubber compound have harden and now giving you less traction and comfort. The new PS4 do have in your size if you are thinking of upgrading the tyres. Quite a few choices for you like Bridgestone RE-003 also but PS4 are the latest....:driver:
If got budget, no need to think and just go for the PS4!
 

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Poison......:driver:
To be honest, I don't have an unlimited budget, if I did I would be driving something like an EVO7, Impreza or maybe a 350Z or BRZ/GT86 :driver:

So I will be be getting something more mid-range performance orientated tires when I change, don't care much about road noise, the exhaust will probably be louder that that anyway :biggrin:

cheers
 

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To be honest, I don't have an unlimited budget, if I did I would be driving something like an EVO7, Impreza or maybe a 350Z or BRZ/GT86 :driver:

So I will be be getting something more mid-range performance orientated tires when I change, don't care much about road noise, the exhaust will probably be louder that that anyway :biggrin:

cheers
With additional power at least stick to PS3, don't got mid range.....lol
 

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fuu..better not to get any poison from brake...hows their workmanship? interested into getting evo6/7 set 4p/2p not in near future..:bawling:
They do everything in-house. So workmanship is very good and they torque wrench everything. No air pressure gun locking down any bolt with these guys. I like this part about them.

Incidentally - I have a APRacing 5000 R caliper and PCD100 x 4 2 piece rotor at home if you're interested.... :biggrin:
 

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They do everything in-house. So workmanship is very good and they torque wrench everything. No air pressure gun locking down any bolt with these guys. I like this part about them.

Incidentally - I have a APRacing 5000 R caliper and PCD100 x 4 2 piece rotor at home if you're interested.... :biggrin:
Cannot fit to your future ride, or that have better brakes already?:smokin:
 

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With additional power at least stick to PS3, don't got mid range.....lol
Price difference between PS3 & PS4 no so much I think , so not worth it to get PS3 anymore if PS4 is available for the same size. But yeah I totally agree, don't go to mid range tires. If budget more limited then at least go with value for money UHP tires like the Hankook V12 Evo2.
 

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Price difference between PS3 & PS4 no so much I think , so not worth it to get PS3 anymore if PS4 is available for the same size. But yeah I totally agree, don't go to mid range tires. If budget more limited then at least go with value for money UHP tires like the Hankook V12 Evo2.
Yah! if price not much difference or about same of course go PS4. Not sure of prices in BKK?
 

jay_lancer

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jay_lancer

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Aug 21, 2015
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Thailand
hi, so first I would like to apologize to all my friends from this forum, have been very busy and not had much time for my Lancer for a while, but finally got some time and have done a brake upgrade, using some Subaru 4 pot calipers and disks

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jay_lancer

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jay_lancer

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Aug 21, 2015
292
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Thailand
Need slight mod or just plug and play?
just adapters to bolt on from the caliper mounting points to the mounting point of the stock caliper on the hub
but the adapters were simple no welding or shaping of the metal so the metal keeps its strength

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also the disks were re-drilled to suit the 4x114.3 stud pattern

Fitted fine under my 16" Enkei wheels

owner of the shop told me Subaru 4 pot is a much easier fit to Lancer than other budget 4 pot options such as Skyline R32 and Toyota Vigo pickup.

hope that helps
 
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